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Post by psychedelictony on Mar 23, 2024 13:36:19 GMT
I think the club are going take the angle that they will be happy with whatever space they are given, as long as it serves basic needs. Let's face it to get something built that would complement there rest of the ground, ie the height of the main stand is not gonna happen. There would need to be considerably more than 4 storeys to the student accommodation to make it worthwhile. The bottom few would have no natural light.
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Post by bullish on Mar 23, 2024 13:48:47 GMT
Is it still "all about the leases"? Or have we moved on?
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Post by eggchaserbull on Mar 23, 2024 14:06:47 GMT
Why has the artist got camouflaged tanks and/or armoured Assault guns hiding in the trees opposite the construction? Are they expecting hostile fans, or exceptionally belligerent students?
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Andrew
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Post by Andrew on Mar 23, 2024 14:23:05 GMT
That was to an old District Council that no longer exists and legislation has surpassed those conditions. Prove it I don't need to
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Andrew
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Post by Andrew on Mar 23, 2024 14:26:06 GMT
The club are tenants with a very short lease. Local Authorities across the nation are very short of money with some going bust so need income to pay for social care which swallows up most of their/our money.
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Post by sortitoutwebbbull on Mar 23, 2024 14:27:41 GMT
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Post by Sheffbull on Mar 23, 2024 23:13:26 GMT
When they say they hope the project will be completed by the end of the 28/29 season - surely it won’t take that long to complete the football side of the project? I understand there are various processes to go through and that all takes time, but it’s hardly rebuilding Old Trafford is it. Understand the two will be linked and are both part of the overall project but at the same time it’s clear to see from the design examples that they could also be separate e.g. you could build the stand and separate the football facilities from the remaining work? Baring in mind I don’t have a clue about any of the health and safety side of all this . It’s just the thought of it being demolished in 2024 and not having a stand there until 2029 seems a bit over the top.
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Post by White Lightning on Mar 24, 2024 8:12:26 GMT
When they say they hope the project will be completed by the end of the 28/29 season - surely it won’t take that long to complete the football side of the project? I understand there are various processes to go through and that all takes time, but it’s hardly rebuilding Old Trafford is it. Understand the two will be linked and are both part of the overall project but at the same time it’s clear to see from the design examples that they could also be separate e.g. you could build the stand and separate the football facilities from the remaining work? Baring in mind I don’t have a clue about any of the health and safety side of all this . It’s just the thought of it being demolished in 2024 and not having a stand there until 2029 seems a bit over the top. This is on a Sunday morning and rattled off, and I don't get involved with setting up sites, so someone could probably correct/impove much of the below. That will be a reasonably challenging build I reckon. Bugger all space to play with. Fulham have recently tried to break the world record for taking the longest to finish a stand (Covid won't have helped, Barney may know what the story is, but the new riverside stand had a river at the back obviously). They tried to string it out longer than Northampton, Port Vale and Halifax. Before the build HFC are going to need temporary facilities to serve the two side stands. I would be tempted to utilise the Addison's area for blocks C&D, with some kind of way of vetting system for that period before kick off where you have paid to get in but Addison's is still open to the outside. That would solve the one corner, adapt the bar to have some kind of basic tea hut style facility in it maybe? The away fans will need cabins maybe. The period during the actual build would take some thinking about as the temporary away facilities would be in the footprint of the site. The build itself I would imagine you would have to do it all together to keep costs down? I think you would throw the main building up first, you would probably need a crane. One in the middle behind the goal? They usually need something like 6m x 6m concrete bases. I would maybe put them within the footprint of the new spectator area and leave the building of the stand until the main guts of the building is complete, the stand if low level (as per the graphic) is largely prefab elements (the terrace concrete/steel/roof components etc.). The main building would need a lot of crane work, especially if it is a reinforced concrete frame (it would need some reinforced concrete elements to give it stability during construction - lifts/shear walls). They would need to establish a site compound. That will probably be up where the old Covid testing place was behind the ME if that is still up for grabs. As it is away from the site I believe it would need planning, but that is a formality. The existing footway along the back of the BE would need to be shut for the duration I reckon. Certainly for the duration of a scaffold (unless the new building is set back sufficiently from the road). There will be bugger all space so imagine the site entrance would be in the main stand corner. They would be sorted if they could close off the end of whatever that road is called behind the main stand. Access can be maintained to the ground/parking from the new road end. That would give them sufficient space to have a delivery area. Otherwise it is going to be well tight space wise. Bigger stuff is built in more challenging locations in say Central London though. It just sends the costs up. Going back to opening the stand early. If it was Old Trafford that would form a large part of the contract with crippling penalties if you miss the opening date, with the Blackfriars End having been derelict for so long I would imagine that wouldn't be a problem. Sports stands can be a graveyard for contractors. Contracting runs on tight margins so when things go wrong it can be fatal. Laing's came a cropper with the Millennium Stadium which was seriously challenging build, that contributed to their downfall. The Britannia Group went through recently, not sure how much the new Liverpool stand contributed to that, but they seemed to be dragging their heels. Funnily enough Mowlem's caught a cold doing Exeter's first two new stands about twenty years ago (they pretty much went through around the time and this wouldn't have helped), I think they took one of Mowlem's subsidiary companies for something like £300k when Exeter went through. Fun (nerdy) stadium fact. If you go on satellite on google maps and go to the Millennium Stadium you will note the big towers in the corners. The two at the opposite end of the Cardiff Arms Park are at 45 degrees. The others are at a really awkward angle, that is going by memory due to them having a right game with the rugby club which caused chaos with the build.
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Post by indefatigabull on Mar 24, 2024 8:59:47 GMT
To make a bit more room, is there any chance of them shortening the pitch? I have no idea exactly how long it is but some pitches are wider than others. Is it the same for length or are they all the same?
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Post by White Lightning on Mar 24, 2024 9:02:20 GMT
You could probably nick a metre or two between the existing front wall and the pitch without having to realign it.
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Andrew
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Post by Andrew on Mar 24, 2024 9:56:59 GMT
Station Approach HCA student accommodation was pre fabricated
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Post by White Lightning on Mar 24, 2024 11:29:50 GMT
Station Approach HCA student accommodation was pre fabricated That is a good shout. You mentioned the decent leases HUFC had. How would things be different now? They would have been flogged wouldn't they? With no future income? We would have maybe scraped a stand out of it, but any profit from the sale of them plots would largely been swallowed up by debt??
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Post by dadstaxi on Mar 24, 2024 12:12:02 GMT
If Gloucester were to go tits up there would be a few containers going cheap.
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Andrew
Senior Member
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Post by Andrew on Mar 24, 2024 12:36:43 GMT
Station Approach HCA student accommodation was pre fabricated That is a good shout. You mentioned the decent leases HUFC had. How would things be different now? They would have been flogged wouldn't they? With no future income? We would have maybe scraped a stand out of it, but any profit from the sale of them plots would largely been swallowed up by debt?? HFC currently have a very short lease on 3 sides of the stadium. Blackfriars End is owned by the Unitary Authority who need income. All their lease holders are under pressure financially to deliver more rent. Basic economics. HFC will not benefit financially from the accommodation by will gain a four sided stadium on a longer lease.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2024 13:44:51 GMT
One thing's for sure, it's student accommodation with a football stand rather than a football stand with student accommodation.
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Post by White Lightning on Mar 24, 2024 15:13:07 GMT
One thing's for sure, it's student accommodation with a football stand rather than a football stand with student accommodation. I think even with the more favourable terms that the proposed development at the end of HUFC enjoyed it was probably that way round. Although the planned stand that was drawn up when Bob Pritchard was getting things going was quite tidy. A bit bigger than my dodgy sketches a few pages ago.
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Andrew
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Post by Andrew on Mar 24, 2024 15:38:23 GMT
The economic circumstances have changed an awful lot since Bob's plans
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Post by White Lightning on Mar 24, 2024 16:17:57 GMT
Does anyone know why/who/when etc. is going on with that whole strip between Edgar Street and the station? More has happened up the Station end (with the transport interchange looking like the next development), but not a dickie bird down the ES end. Nothing even being talked about is there?
That road has been there a while.
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Post by sjpreece on Mar 24, 2024 21:57:44 GMT
Does anyone know why/who/when etc. is going on with that whole strip between Edgar Street and the station? More has happened up the Station end (with the transport interchange looking like the next development), but not a dickie bird down the ES end. Nothing even being talked about is there? That road has been there a while. Talk a while back of a new police and fire station down towards the stadium but with the fire station to be renovated that won't happen. Talk of houses on the back of the car park (lorry area) but nothing further happened.
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vorno
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Post by vorno on Mar 25, 2024 12:18:15 GMT
Such good progress off field this season, change in Chairman has proved just as beneficial as having Caddis for me at least.
On this:
We have one of the widest pitches known to man
And formerly the most narrowest stand in the EFL
So if we are re-doing Blackfriars why not use this opp to bring the walls of Len Weston lower terrace a few feet inwards?
And the new Blackfriars end aligned with this new wall.
Just means we are future proofing any future development of Len Weston (which is a very narrow footprint) - and the existing upper tier can actually see the touchline?!
It might even mean a few hundred extra capacity too ?
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