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Post by Monkey Tennis on Jan 3, 2024 19:48:51 GMT
I meant our alternative football family. A ditch and a rag to wipe your hands. In all seriousness, taking a young daughter to that place can't be too appealing. Not that I have ever been in the ladies loos I might add, they may well be palatial. Although I am not certain. Probably more inadequate in their numbers rather than scummy judging by the queue to the ladies loos on NYD (like you, I'll offer a disclaimer insofar as the ladies in Radfords are next to the gents).
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2024 19:49:51 GMT
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Post by Incognito on Jan 3, 2024 19:51:25 GMT
Interesting developments. Is the Blackfrirs End beyond repair? What is structurally wrong with it? I'm thinking if it is bulldozed in the summer as they are now thinking and there is no plan beyond that it would just end up being left like that for god knows how long. Prior to it being "terraced" there were banks of earth either side of the goal that were topped with cinders and had sleepers dug in to provide some stability. In the early sixties teams of volunteers and brickies shuttered the banks and infilled with concrete. AFAIA there were never any "real" foundations put in the Edgar Street side of the banking. Towards the end of GT's era the ES side was condemned due to subsidence and GT closed the whole end as a result. During DK's era the Merton Stand side of the terrace was found to be still sound (the glass tabs that had been inserted were still in place and unbroken) and was re-opened. I also recall talk of the ME needing replacement eventually as it was built in a similar manner. The logic at the time was to do the Blackfriars first then use it for the ME hordes while the ME was done. Mind you, with a 250 year lease (including the area behind the ME) it was less of a pipedream back then.
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Post by Monkey Tennis on Jan 3, 2024 19:51:50 GMT
Student accommodation/shops and a decent sized terrace+60 year lease on the ground. Starting late spring. That's what I've heard anyway. 60 years? Blimey. That would be brilliant.
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Post by Incognito on Jan 3, 2024 19:53:23 GMT
Student accommodation/shops and a decent sized terrace+60 year lease on the ground. Starting late spring. That's what I've heard anyway. I think to get grants you may need to go with seats? Wasn't there some recent(ish) easing of that criteria?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2024 19:59:50 GMT
I think to get grants you may need to go with seats? Wasn't there some recent(ish) easing of that criteria? Not sure. Can't find anything much about that Bromley stand.
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Post by sevenoaksbull on Jan 3, 2024 20:11:32 GMT
Student accommodation/shops and a decent sized terrace+60 year lease on the ground. Starting late spring. That's what I've heard anyway. 60 years? Blimey. That would be brilliant. 60 years isn’t enough for financing. Needs to be 99 years plus
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Post by Hawkeye on Jan 3, 2024 20:17:39 GMT
60 years? Blimey. That would be brilliant. 60 years isn’t enough for financing. Needs to be 99 years plus And, would the 'footprint' be revised on any new lease? As I recall, when the 'old' lease reverted to the Council, the new lease they awarded only covered the pitch area and a minimal footprint beyond that.
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Post by Monkey Tennis on Jan 3, 2024 20:21:36 GMT
60 years? Blimey. That would be brilliant. 60 years isn’t enough for financing. Needs to be 99 years plus Unlikely, I'd think. 60 years would be unlikely too I'd imagine. Not that I know anything about these things - purely based on the general and relative short-termism of current times.
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Post by sevenoaksbull on Jan 3, 2024 20:46:30 GMT
60 years isn’t enough for financing. Needs to be 99 years plus Unlikely, I'd think. 60 years would be unlikely too I'd imagine. Not that I know anything about these things - purely based on the general and relative short-termism of current times. 60 year leases are not that common, especially in a development scenario like this. You’d want at least 99 years to give you enough of an interest to use the lease as security for a loan. IIRC the DK lease was 250 years. If I were advising the club, I’d be starting with the old DK lease terms and negotiating from there. The Council don’t have the money to do the development, so they need to grant a lease to someone who can do the work and whoever that is, they would almost certianly need to borrow the money to deliver the project, so need a lease acceptable to a financing party. The club needs to make sure it gets on the right side of the deal and not end up being a pawn in someone else’s game.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2024 20:53:23 GMT
This stand along one side at Ebbsfleet cost a cool £5M apparently. It only has 1000 seats and a stack of facilities behind. 7oaks will be able to confirm that the cost of these sort of stands is controlled by the standard of the fit out. At one end would be a stand incorporating residential. Whilst that isn't the cost of the physical stand, if is part of the overall cost. We have all been to impressive away stands (Rushden way back is a great example), and more spartan facilities. At the other end of the spectrum is the Glos offering with drop in checker plate metal terracing and garden shed bogs.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2024 21:05:06 GMT
This is what a 1200 seater stand would look like (at Dagenham although the massive writing in the seats may have beat me to it). It is elevated like the main stand to provide the headroom to get the facilities underneath. GT envisaged a larger version of this back in the day. Bigger would be good, but I think we need to be realistic.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2024 21:07:07 GMT
I think a fair few years of it standing fallow* cannot be ruled out, or maybe a short term couple of rows of terracing along with access to some facilities just to get it back in use whilst everything plays out?
*after being tidied up
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Post by organic on Jan 3, 2024 21:13:41 GMT
Why would we need a 1200 all seated stand? When would we ever fill it. And the bigger it is would require extra stewards etc?
Surely 800 would be sufficient especially if it's only for way fans.
Add 800 to the current 4800 equals 5600. 15% of that is 840.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2024 21:18:36 GMT
Why would we need a 1200 all seated stand? When would we ever fill it. And the bigger it is would require extra stewards etc? Surely 800 would be sufficient especially if it's only for way fans. Add 800 to the current 4800 equals 5600. 15% of that is 840. I think 1200 would be future proofed against football league progress? It could be split 60/40 between home and away. The facilities in the away corner enhancing the Len Weston. That is surely on borrowed time and whatever goes there would be too narrow for facilities. I am just playing. 800 is probably more realistic unfortunately as we are on borrowed land that needs to be maximised for whatever faces Waitrose I guess.
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Post by organic on Jan 3, 2024 21:30:52 GMT
If you split 60/40 then you will lose some of the capacity and again need more stewards?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2024 21:36:12 GMT
If you split 60/40 then you will lose some of the capacity and again need more stewards? I think whatever happens at the ends is complicated by them having to serve the Len Weston side (either in the current or future forms). My idea (possibly a bit clumsy but off the cuff), is to give away fans the South end of the LW and the West end of the BE with their facilities in that corner. If you gave them the whole of the BE then the LW as a home stand would have to all be fed facilities wise from the ME. That is just me thinking out loud.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2024 21:40:23 GMT
Decent disabled facilities need to be factored in.
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Post by Armchairfan on Jan 3, 2024 21:51:12 GMT
Interesting developments. Is the Blackfrirs End beyond repair? What is structurally wrong with it? I'm thinking if it is bulldozed in the summer as they are now thinking and there is no plan beyond that it would just end up being left like that for god knows how long. Prior to it being "terraced" there were banks of earth either side of the goal that were topped with cinders and had sleepers dug in to provide some stability. In the early sixties teams of volunteers and brickies shuttered the banks and infilled with concrete. AFAIA there were never any "real" foundations put in the Edgar Street side of the banking. Towards the end of GT's era the ES side was condemned due to subsidence and GT closed the whole end as a result. During DK's era the Merton Stand side of the terrace was found to be still sound (the glass tabs that had been inserted were still in place and unbroken) and was re-opened. I also recall talk of the ME needing replacement eventually as it was built in a similar manner. The logic at the time was to do the Blackfriars first then use it for the ME hordes while the ME was done. Mind you, with a 250 year lease (including the area behind the ME) it was less of a pipedream back then. What ever it was built from, it had a bloody "Hammering". Just saw this on Tw@tter.
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Post by mikeunderpenyard on Jan 3, 2024 22:20:52 GMT
If you split 60/40 then you will lose some of the capacity and again need more stewards? I think whatever happens at the ends is complicated by them having to serve the Len Weston side (either in the current or future forms). My idea (possibly a bit clumsy but off the cuff), is to give away fans the South end of the LW and the West end of the BE with their facilities in that corner. If you gave them the whole of the BE then the LW as a home stand would have to all be fed facilities wise from the ME. That is just me thinking out loud. 'My idea (possibly a bit clumsy but off the cuff), is to give away fans the South end of the LW' What!
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