Andrew
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Post by Andrew on Jul 22, 2023 12:48:26 GMT
In short order also, that last point is a particularly sobering thought. One wonders how many of those who have any interest in the club, pecuniary or otherwise, were or are aware of the reality. 😲 Just on a point of clarity, whilst the existing lease is running down, there is nothing to prevent both the club and HC form entering into negotiations to agree a new lease for the whole stadium.  I keep hearing talk of this happening, but so far nothing has been said, which to be fair is not unusual during such commercial negotiations.  I only hope that those in the club who make these decisions are actively pursuing an appropriate course of action.  I do know that when the new club was formed, the current lease was the best deal the Council would offer, given that the club had no trading history and would be playing at not much above park standard - in the parlance of these things, they had no covenant. Since then of course, things have moved on and I’d like to think the club would now be negotiating from a much stronger position. Herefordshire Council require full commercial rents these days...Long gone are peppercorn rents.
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Post by sevenoaksbull on Jul 22, 2023 13:08:02 GMT
It depends on the terms offered. Peppercorn rents are usually charged on long leases, so 50+ years and typically 99 years or more. To secure such a lease, the tenant pays a premium, usually a substantial sum. Shorter commercial leases are usually on commercial terms, in other words based on a market rent or some other easily definable sum, and usually subject to review. It would be interesting to know how HC would determine the current market rent of a tatty football ground - it’s not like there are loads of businesses queuing up to rent the place.
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Post by Barney still in B-Block on Jul 22, 2023 16:51:57 GMT
The lack of money around more generally is what might give the club an extension at ES. Council might, just might let HFC stay awhile longer if the alternative was to mothball the place.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2023 17:41:08 GMT
I'd bulldoze the place and build a load of cheap housing with unsafe cladding on it.
Then I'd sell all the houses to a bastard and he can lease them out on some complex contract which makes it sound like they've sold them (but he hasn't really) to gullible people.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2023 17:43:28 GMT
Then I'd build a train station at Rotherwas and a Hungry Horse with a massive beer garden and a football stadium with a bar and a 100 seated stand.
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Post by tigerfeet on Jul 22, 2023 17:48:47 GMT
I'd bulldoze the place and build a load of cheap housing with unsafe cladding on it. Then I'd sell all the houses to a bastard and he can lease them out on some complex contract which makes it sound like they've sold them (but he hasn't really) to gullible people. Hi Tommy!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2023 17:58:15 GMT
To be fair, he was somewhat more of a philanthropist with his utopian vision of a massive Indian restaurant.
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Post by yazorruddock on Jul 23, 2023 6:57:37 GMT
Last Tuesday was my first visit to Edgar Street in over 3 years. It struck me how completely outdated the whole stadium is, not just the Blackfriars End. The toilets and catering facilities (and the access to them) are a joke. Access to the main stand is poor and the Len Weston has long surpassed it's life expectancy. Like everyone else on here I have amazing memories of watching football with my mates at Edgar Street but times have changed, football stadia designs have moved on since the 70's. Edgar Street is a relic and a new set of floodlights, even a new stand on one end of the ground, won't change that. The club/council will never have the finances to rebuild the stadium on the same site. The club will have to move out of town in order to progress.
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Post by Redragtoabull on Jul 23, 2023 13:59:24 GMT
Progress in what way? You can build an out of town stadium but you can’t buy history, tradition, nostalgia. The best thing HFC did was stay at Edgar Strasse. Yes it’s seedy in places, yes it needs investment, but I would rather see money put into the place than into some sterile, brand new Lego stadium of which there are many examples.
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Post by psychedelictony on Jul 23, 2023 14:39:32 GMT
I love Edgar Street. I get a shiver going in. Have said before if the club has to relocate to survive, so be it. But with the last ties for me then cut, I would find it hard to continue following the club. There wouldn't be much left for me personally. It would be different if I lived in Hereford no doubt. Of course it would.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2023 14:48:59 GMT
Just a bit of silliness...
If my memory serves me well it is roughly 30m from the wall behind the goal to the Blackfriars Street perimeter wall.
Playing fantasy stadium builder you could fit a stand with 40 rows of seats behind that goal!
I doubt you would get planning for a whole host of reasons, but that would be 5000 seats.
Alternatively you could have a terrace for 3500 with a row of executive boxes halfway up. Then 2500 seats in the top tier.
If you went for a double decker with an overhanging upper tier you could probably get 7000 seats up that end.
That would be not only good enough for the NLN bur probably the league above too 😀.
The previous squared off Meadow End footprint would be a tad smaller so just over 30 rows of seats or 4000.
That is all way over the top obviously but it is pretend so I can do what I want.
What was originally envisaged during the latter HUFC days were two much reduced stands 1000 seats at the BE and 1500 terrace at the ME maybe? A mini version of what they did at Stamford Bridge. Something they now really regret.
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Post by Words Of One Silly Bull on Jul 23, 2023 16:01:27 GMT
Progress in what way? You can build an out of town stadium but you can’t buy history, tradition, nostalgia. The best thing HFC did was stay at Edgar Strasse. Yes it’s seedy in places, yes it needs investment, but I would rather see money put into the place than into some sterile, brand new Lego stadium of which there are many examples.
I tend to agree with the above. Tellingly, in our own NLN League alone, there are three excellent examples of clubs who abandoned their more centrally located old grounds for a modern, out of town, stadium, whilst still a Football League club; Scunny, Chester and Darlo. Progress? Not guaranteed. And personally, I'm old enough to remember visiting the Old Show Ground, Sealand Road and Feethams, and much preferred the atmosphere in the those historic old grounds to their soulless replacements.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2023 16:13:08 GMT
Hawkeye said the same about the FA Cup final. Said it used to be much better before the new stadium.
Although he did confess that Crystal Palace was a pig to get to.
So like most things there are pros and cons.
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Post by Hawkeye on Jul 23, 2023 18:06:42 GMT
Hawkeye said the same about the FA Cup final. Said it used to be much better before the new stadium. Although he did confess that Crystal Palace was a pig to get to. So like most things there are pros and cons. The stewards at Palace told me I had to stay with my bus. Took some serious blagging on my part to actually get in to see the game. Thankfully, the bus was still where I had parked it when I returned at full-time. Which was a result for the HUISA supporters. And Crystal Palace was a doddle to get to compared to Millwall. 😂
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Post by Incognito on Jul 23, 2023 18:31:33 GMT
I seem to remember having to park under the stand at Meelwall.
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Post by tigerfeet on Jul 23, 2023 18:33:05 GMT
Last Tuesday was my first visit to Edgar Street in over 3 years. It struck me how completely outdated the whole stadium is, not just the Blackfriars End. The toilets and catering facilities (and the access to them) are a joke. Access to the main stand is poor and the Len Weston has long surpassed it's life expectancy. Like everyone else on here I have amazing memories of watching football with my mates at Edgar Street but times have changed, football stadia designs have moved on since the 70's. Edgar Street is a relic and a new set of floodlights, even a new stand on one end of the ground, won't change that. The club/council will never have the finances to rebuild the stadium on the same site. The club will have to move out of town in order to progress. For me it's all about location. Edgar Street may be a bit tatty but it's the perfect venue in terms of access to public transport and food and drink venues, with a large car park adjoining the ground. Plus I'm not sure that city centre land is quite as valuable as it once was, these days the trend seems to be to build out of town retail parks just off motorways and ring roads. We don't want to end up like poor Shrewsbury, playing in a Meccano stadium several miles from the town they represent with poor transport links and nowhere to eat and drink nearby.
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Post by mb on Jul 23, 2023 18:41:09 GMT
Last Tuesday was my first visit to Edgar Street in over 3 years. It struck me how completely outdated the whole stadium is, not just the Blackfriars End. The toilets and catering facilities (and the access to them) are a joke. Access to the main stand is poor and the Len Weston has long surpassed it's life expectancy. Like everyone else on here I have amazing memories of watching football with my mates at Edgar Street but times have changed, football stadia designs have moved on since the 70's. Edgar Street is a relic and a new set of floodlights, even a new stand on one end of the ground, won't change that. The club/council will never have the finances to rebuild the stadium on the same site. The club will have to move out of town in order to progress. For me it's all about location. Edgar Street may be a bit tatty but it's the perfect venue in terms of access to public transport and food and drink venues, with a large car park adjoining the ground. Plus I'm not sure that city centre land is quite as valuable as it once was, these days the trend seems to be to build out of town retail parks just off motorways and ring roads. We don't want to end up like poor Shrewsbury, playing in a Meccano stadium several miles from the town they represent with poor transport links and nowhere to eat and drink nearby. It will need to be a long way out of town if it is near a motorwau or ring road.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2023 19:44:47 GMT
Last Tuesday was my first visit to Edgar Street in over 3 years. It struck me how completely outdated the whole stadium is, not just the Blackfriars End. The toilets and catering facilities (and the access to them) are a joke. Access to the main stand is poor and the Len Weston has long surpassed it's life expectancy. Like everyone else on here I have amazing memories of watching football with my mates at Edgar Street but times have changed, football stadia designs have moved on since the 70's. Edgar Street is a relic and a new set of floodlights, even a new stand on one end of the ground, won't change that. The club/council will never have the finances to rebuild the stadium on the same site. The club will have to move out of town in order to progress. For me it's all about location. Edgar Street may be a bit tatty but it's the perfect venue in terms of access to public transport and food and drink venues, with a large car park adjoining the ground. Plus I'm not sure that city centre land is quite as valuable as it once was, these days the trend seems to be to build out of town retail parks just off motorways and ring roads. We don't want to end up like poor Shrewsbury, playing in a Meccano stadium several miles from the town they represent with poor transport links and nowhere to eat and drink nearby. And an average attendance of 6400 or so.
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Post by carrotcruncher on Jul 23, 2023 20:13:57 GMT
Progress in what way? You can build an out of town stadium but you can’t buy history, tradition, nostalgia. The best thing HFC did was stay at Edgar Strasse. Yes it’s seedy in places, yes it needs investment, but I would rather see money put into the place than into some sterile, brand new Lego stadium of which there are many examples.
I tend to agree with the above. Tellingly, in our own NLN League alone, there are three excellent examples of clubs who abandoned their more centrally located old grounds for a modern, out of town, stadium, whilst still a Football League club; Scunny, Chester and Darlo. Progress? Not guaranteed. And personally, I'm old enough to remember visiting the Old Show Ground, Sealand Road and Feethams, and much preferred the atmosphere in the those historic old grounds to their soulless replacements.
There's also Telford. Stayed in their location, now have a tidy ground. They went busy after building it (one person's ego) but they're an example of improving an existing ground that we could look at.
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Post by yazorruddock on Jul 23, 2023 20:29:23 GMT
Progress in what way? You can build an out of town stadium but you can’t buy history, tradition, nostalgia. The best thing HFC did was stay at Edgar Strasse. Yes it’s seedy in places, yes it needs investment, but I would rather see money put into the place than into some sterile, brand new Lego stadium of which there are many examples. Progress up the pyramid and attract more people to attend. The last real improvement at Edgar Street was around the time we played Man Utd in the FA Cup, 1990, when the right hand side of the main stand was completed. The stadium needs major rebuilding work to future proof it, it would cost tens of millions of pounds! Ask Shrewsbury (or the likes of Brentford) fans if they miss their old grounds and I am sure many would say they do. Ask them if they would move back to them given the chance and I very much doubt they would.
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