But them's the breaks

[Differentiabull]

Nov 15, 2024 18:45:24 GMT colebridgebull said:

Nov 15, 2024 17:59:01 GMT Differentiabull said:

Right, yes, and if that's the case we need that detail. At the moment the BBU figures have an appearance of greater analysis than the 'about 30k' from the club, so I assume - until I see evidence to the contrary - the fundraising is covered by HUST.

What I humbly suggest we don't need is framing of the discussion where instead of 'how much does it cost' we go with 'are you accusing the club of lying?' The fanbase civil war last time wasn't pleasant, certainly drove some people away for good, and is something I hope we can try and avoid here.

The discussion was “framed” that way from the outset by BBU. The whole premise was that the original HUST vote was influenced by the £30k figure which was being challenged by BBU on the basis of…well, nothing really. I only used the word lying to try and get Luke to answer a question he was studiously ignoring.

Given Stig’s post on X, it looks like the £30k is an underestimate. I repeat. The club had already been through a branding exercise in 2015 so would know how much the true costs are.

First, well done to him for stressing the imperative to retain civility here. I think there is an important difference here to (say) 2014, where there were two competing paths. Here, the division is largely (not everyone fits into this, but most seem to), between those who want to return to HUFC and those who aren't bothered or don't think it's worth it. I don't think anyone claims an ineffable association with the name 'Hereford FC'. So it becomes more of a cost/benefit thing, and not a purely ideological one.

But I suggest he hasn't added much more detail here, beyond a few themes and appeals to emotion. The right way is for the club to come up with meaningful numbers, and then share and discuss with HUST. Perhaps not all the 'work' he envisages needs to be done. And I for one would go out and buy the 'last ever Hereford FC shirt', for instance. The mentions of contracts also hints towards the need to change the company name again, for which no one is asking. I think transparency here is crucial in stopping this becoming the divisive issue he rightly wants to avoid.

While I take the point about the numbers of people voting, I think it's also unfortunate to suggest alternative electorates after a vote that you didn't like the result of, rather than choosing to suggest that before the (well publicised) vote took place.

[Monkey Tennis]

Nov 15, 2024 19:22:10 GMT psychedelictony said:

Whatever the costs of the name change are, we will say between 10-30k - whatever - nobody's gonna spend anything off the back of a few hundred people voting.
Give out a ballot sheet to home fans on Boxing Day. At least get a reasonable number of votes in. Then you can talk percentages.

Pens or pencils will be needed too. That's another few quid down the drain.

This is all getting very silly. The "FC" thing is mildly annoying admittedly, but any money spent by anyone on reverting to Hereford United could be better spent elsewhere.

Seems to me it's a very small group of folk who are hell-bent in getting the "United" back in the name anyway, most don't seem to be too bothered. It's only a bloody name after all - it still has "Hereford" in it.

Attachments:

[colebridgebull]

Careful MT. I mentioned the “war” earlier but think I got away with it.

But I agree with you. This is all a distraction that the club b don’t need

[psychedelictony]

3rded

I'm not arsed if they do change the name but its a vanity project that would waste vital funds.

[Monkey Tennis]

Nov 15, 2024 20:05:02 GMT colebridgebull said:

Careful MT. I mentioned the “war” earlier but think I got away with it.

But I agree with you. This is all a distraction that the club b don’t need

That's quite possibly of utmost relevance.

Things are currently going well at the club by the looks; decent manager, decent team, decent results. Nothing much to get shouty about apart from the queues in Radfords, and even that was half-successfully addressed last Saturday.

Shouty folk have to have something to shout about; it's the law. This name-change thing could've all started 5 years ago of course, but there were other - more team/management/chairman related things - to be more shouty about then. 

[swanbull]

Returning the name to Hereford United isn’t going to, all of sudden, turn Jason Cowley into Dixie McNeil or Kyle Howkins into Darren Peacock is it ? For goodness sake, let the people who give their time up to keep the wheels in motion be able to do that without unnecessary nonsense like this.

[Differentiabull]

Nov 15, 2024 19:49:11 GMT Monkey Tennis said:

Nov 15, 2024 19:22:10 GMT psychedelictony said:

Whatever the costs of the name change are, we will say between 10-30k - whatever - nobody's gonna spend anything off the back of a few hundred people voting.
Give out a ballot sheet to home fans on Boxing Day. At least get a reasonable number of votes in. Then you can talk percentages.

Pens or pencils will be needed too. That's another few quid down the drain.

This is all getting very silly. The "FC" thing is mildly annoying admittedly, but any money spent by anyone on reverting to Hereford United could be better spent elsewhere.

Seems to me it's a very small group of folk who are hell-bent in getting the "United" back in the name anyway, most don't seem to be too bothered. It's only a bloody name after all - it still has "Hereford" in it.

We've been round here. It matters to me and other people because it just does. I've said before on here, none of this makes sense, we're all heavily invested in 6th tier football, where's the sense in that.

It's perfectly fair and valid to think this is a waste of time and energy. But please let's accept that for some people it _isn't_ a waste of time, nor try and suggest it's a minority of trouble makers who need something to whine about. For me, the name Hereford United is an important part of my and our city's history, and as mad as it may seem, I think it's a part worth spending money on to reclaim. You think differently and that's fine. Let's keep it civil around that.

But the other thing is that, until we have better evidence to show otherwise, the money spent on a name change doesn't mean money taken away from something else. It will come from fundraising ringfenced for this purpose alone. I have pledged £100 towards a name change - if the name change doesn't happen, I'm not going to suddenly just give £100 to the club instead for no reason.

Let's put it another way. If you are someone who isn't really bothered about the name change, and the name change is at little or no cost to the club, then I'm not sure why your response needs to be anymore than a shrug. You can smile at those happy idiots who cared enough about the word 'United' to waste time and money and get on with your day, while the happy idiots get to feel a bit more warm and fuzzy about watching those blokes in black and white kick a football around.

[sisyphus]

Waste of time and energy.
Hereford United have gone.
It won’t come back by renaming a different club.
The architects of United’s demise will have to live with their actions forever.
But in the meantime at least attempt to justify their Machiavellian enterprise by ensuring that the replacement club doesn’t go the same way…

[Corporal Ken]

The five shareholders (the proper ones not the great unwashed) need to make a statement indicating their preference and views.

Otherwise this will rumble on and on and on.

[organic]

Assuming the five take the same view.

[Gresty]

I've now read Stig's extremely well reasoned statement and have concluded that, previously not being bothered one way or the other, I now believe that to pursue a name change is not the best utilisation of available resource.

[colebridgebull]

Which it makes it all the more unfortunate that BBU have adopted such a confrontational approach.

My personal experience with them on social media is that it was their way or the highway. Which was a bit of a red rag to a bull in my case.

[PAD]

Whilst not my hill to die on, CB is, and continues to be, very antagonist towards bbu. The vote is what is is....it will be rejected by Edmonson an co. The farce of a fan owned club will be further exposed and the bigger issue of why we have to have FC appended to our name will be ignored.

We are Hereford (as in Liverpool, Everton, Arsenal)...WE DONT NEED THE FeckING FC appended. Grow the Feckup!

[tchereford]

Nov 15, 2024 23:30:02 GMT Gresty said:

I've now read Stig's extremely well reasoned statement and have concluded that, previously not being bothered one way or the other, I now believe that to pursue a name change is not the best utilisation of available resource.

Good thing the current Chairman of Hereford FC stepped in to make his unbiased "personal opinion" that will obviously not have any effect on the fanbase 1 day after a democratic vote has gone the opposite way, eh? What an angel he is.

[tchereford]

Nov 16, 2024 0:58:49 GMT colebridgebull said:

Which it makes it all the more unfortunate that BBU have adopted such a confrontational approach.

My personal experience with them on social media is that it was their way or the highway. Which was a bit of a red rag to a bull in my case.

I think you probably full well know it is in fact yourself that has a problem with people disagreeing with you. If you looked down your nose any harder you'd be going cross eyed.

[PAD]

Nov 16, 2024 0:58:49 GMT colebridgebull said:

Which it makes it all the more unfortunate that BBU have adopted such a confrontational approach.

My personal experience with them on social media is that it was their way or the highway. Which was a bit of a red rag to a bull in my case.

As a pragmatic, some would no doubt say fence sitter, observer of this debate, I did observe CB's Hancockter debate with BBU, and found CB to be the antagonist in the discussion.

I'm usually aligned with CB on many matters, but his strongly held views were very forcibly stated. I was left in no doubt that its FC or the highway in his Gloucester centric outlook.

[ST Andrew]

171 is a long way from a convincing mandate. HUST have always been ignored ask Purdie Barney Loader ect

[White Lightning]

If nothing else, 150 people joining HUST recently has raised £1500 (minus admin).

Assuming that the majority of them joined to vote, not that high a proportion of the 350 strong more long standing membership were too worried either way?

I personally think that most people aren't too worried either way, but if you put a gun to people's heads the 75%ish pro United figure is about right.

A lot of people just go to the football for a beer/chill out. Love the game but not the politics. Like UK life in miniature.

[White Lightning]

Another thing that we are never far from is the Bennies.

You could literally find millions of posts about them on here, many very conspiratorial (go me with the big words). Apart from not wading in with loads of big cash (which they were always clear about), they have never done anything to make you think anything is up have they?

If there is, fair play they are playing the long game.

[colebridgebull]

Nov 16, 2024 3:19:10 GMT tchereford said:

Nov 16, 2024 0:58:49 GMT colebridgebull said:

Which it makes it all the more unfortunate that BBU have adopted such a confrontational approach.

My personal experience with them on social media is that it was their way or the highway. Which was a bit of a red rag to a bull in my case.

I think you probably full well know it is in fact yourself that has a problem with people disagreeing with you. If you looked down your nose any harder you'd be going cross eyed.

Morning. 

My day job is arguing. It sometimes spills over and, like a few others on here, can get a bit OTT. I’ll stand my ground. And don't resort to personal attacks. But each to their own.