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Post by Incognito on Aug 24, 2015 14:25:02 GMT
Away in Southport? Well, that's your credibility out of the window  Yes, you do have to wonder why don't you? |
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Post by Fownhope Bull on Aug 24, 2015 14:48:20 GMT
Dear Grayham What's your view on the Munsley affair? Chris, Grayham....
I don't think these are two mutually exclusive arguments.
However anybody wants to spin it, David Keyte sold Hereford United to a convicted criminal who had absolutely no connection to the area and was a known mate of someone who destroyed Feltham FC.
It would also appear that there are serious questions that need to be asked of the current HFC / HUST board regarding who knew what regarding the moderating and eventual closure of Bulls Banter. The answers (if we get them) to these questions may lead to further questions about the setting up of HFC.
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Post by Fownhope Bull on Aug 24, 2015 15:01:30 GMT
The official statement from HFC was that they had no involvement or control of any external websites, forums, twitters. That included HFC staff and officials. That suggests Martin was not involved. If people have evidence to the contrary then HFC should be made aware of it, so they can take appropriate action. ?
Grayham, I take it you've read the relevant threads?
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Post by Incognito on Aug 24, 2015 15:11:39 GMT
Dear Grayham What's your view on the Munsley affair? Chris, Grayham....
I don't think these are two mutually exclusive arguments.
However anybody wants to spin it, David Keyte sold Hereford United to a convicted criminal who had absolutely no connection to the area and was a known mate of someone who destroyed Feltham FC.
It would also appear that there are serious questions that need to be asked of the current HFC / HUST board regarding who knew what regarding the moderating and eventual closure of Bulls Banter. The answers (if we get them) to these questions may lead to further questions about the setting up of HFC.
Explain please? |
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Post by Barney still in B-Block on Aug 24, 2015 15:13:36 GMT
The official statement from HFC was that they had no involvement or control of any external websites, forums, twitters. That included HFC staff and officials. That suggests Martin was not involved. If people have evidence to the contrary then HFC should be made aware of it, so they can take appropriate action. It suggests that MW told them he wasn't involved. Different matter entirely. And I'm in the pinch of salt camp over the veracity of that particular oracle since the Highgate match. Happy to be proved wrong, the malificent Malcolm Lane theory would be a far better answer for all of us. |
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Post by BullRush on Aug 24, 2015 15:14:29 GMT
Really?
Edit: In reply to Ex...
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Post by Fownhope Bull on Aug 24, 2015 15:14:34 GMT
Ex...
The most famous of Andy’s business ventures are his trade waste companies. As aforementioned at the beginning of this article Andy was involved at Feltham and FC. The team were previously based at the Feltham Arena. It fair to say the ground had fallen into a poor state of repair:
For more pictures see www.derelictlondon.com/sportsgrounds.html. Clearly, Feltham FC needed a new stadium for which planning permission was granted in 2007. Feltham began ground shares with various sides before eventually settling at Bedfont FC. Five years later the stadium was still not built. This ground share later became a merger between the two teams. Hmmmm. Lonsdale was appointed President of Feltham and Bedfont FC.
The plan had been with Feltham FC relocated to redevelop the site as a community stadium with additional training pitches. But first the site needed restoring. A key method of paying for the works would be through the receipts generated from lorry loads of soil brought onto the site from local building developments. This soil would be used to remodel the land at the site.
For this work a reputable local company was required. Step forward All Transport Services Limited. Guess who was a Director and Operations Manger? Yep, our Andy. The same Andy that was also Chairman of the football club that was redeveloping the stadium. A clear conflict of interest if there ever was one.
Before the work started a ‘Tenancy at Will’ was agreed with the local Council. For those that don’t know a ‘Tenancy at Will’ is a flexible contract where the landowner gives rights to a tenant to land or property which is unspecific regarding duration or the amount of rent to be paid. This meant the Council continued to own the land whereas Feltham FC were in charge of the development. Remember this. It becomes important later on.
Planning permission was granted including permission for 15,692m3 of soil to be imported onto the site. Equivalent to 1,570 lorry trips. A soil survey in 2012 showed 73,485m3 had been imported. Equivalent to 7,350 lorry trips. Permission had been granted to raise the height of the land by 1.8m. This had been exceeded with estimates for the actual height somewhere between 4 – 4.5m. It was only possible to estimate as the measure for the height of the land was baselined to the steps on the grandstand which was due to be renovated. Conveniently the grandstand had become victim to an arson attack early in the project and had been demolished in 2008. See the picture below to view the site in its current state:
Unsurprisingly the planned redevelopment of the site never happened. The local council investigated through a group of local councillors who produced a report and made recommendations to ensure that something like this would never happen again. Lonsdale repeatedly claims that this report ‘exonerates’ him from any blame. This blog has emailed Andy@herefordunited.co.uk to ask him to explain how the report exonerates him. We’re read the report and cannot see any passage that does. The following are direct quotes from the report:
‘No delineation was made between his [Lonsdale] voluntary and business interests. There was a clear conflict of interest between these two roles and this was a risk factor that was never addressed [by the Council].’
‘material was being imported onto the site prior to planning permission being granted’
‘Mr Lonsdale himself has suggested that an estimated income figure of £360k from the importation of 30,000m3 materials to the site. He has provided calculations to back this up, but not the information that would allow us to verify this, nor the outgoings that were incurred.’
‘The lack of transparency between the respective roles of Feltham FC and All Transport Limited and the relationship with the between them is a key concern for the Task and Finish Group. Whilst the lack of available financial information prevents us from establishing whether any party benefitted financially, it also prevents us from ruling it out.’
‘Much greater care should have been taken to separate and create transparency between Mr Lonsdale’s business and leisure interests in this project’
‘we were concerned to learn that he [Lonsdale] has had quite a number of directorships in the haulage sector, most of which have been liquidated or dissolved.’
‘Lonsdale was convicted on 2008 for dumping 600 lorry loads of waste on green belt land in South Bucks District Council.’
The Council has since been forced to spend over £300,000 to try to salvage use out of the site. Due to the agreed ‘Tenancy at Will’ the Council remained the land owner throughout the works so is liable for the site and its current state. There is no one available to sue as Feltham FC no longer exists and All Transport Services Limited quickly went into liquidation.
The full report can be read here:
democraticservices.hounslow.gov.uk/(S(4k323145mbtlkkujhe1zfy45))/documents/s81461/Feltham%20Arena%20Draft%20Report.pdf
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Post by Fownhope Bull on Aug 24, 2015 15:19:33 GMT
?
Grayham, I take it you've read the relevant threads?
No, I said that I hadn't. But if people know Martin is lying then HFC should be told officially. With respect, can I suggest you do read the threads. And then make up your own mind.
It would be an awful lot easier if Martin was to explain things on his terms, rather than people forcing him - or the board - into a unpleasant situation. I suspect that if there is no communication soon then questions will be asked more directly.
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Post by Incognito on Aug 24, 2015 15:30:55 GMT
Ex...
The most famous of Andy’s business ventures are his trade waste companies. As aforementioned at the beginning of this article Andy was involved at Feltham and FC. The team were previously based at the Feltham Arena. It fair to say the ground had fallen into a poor state of repair:
For more pictures see www.derelictlondon.com/sportsgrounds.html. Clearly, Feltham FC needed a new stadium for which planning permission was granted in 2007. Feltham began ground shares with various sides before eventually settling at Bedfont FC. Five years later the stadium was still not built. This ground share later became a merger between the two teams. Hmmmm. Lonsdale was appointed President of Feltham and Bedfont FC.
The plan had been with Feltham FC relocated to redevelop the site as a community stadium with additional training pitches. But first the site needed restoring. A key method of paying for the works would be through the receipts generated from lorry loads of soil brought onto the site from local building developments. This soil would be used to remodel the land at the site.
For this work a reputable local company was required. Step forward All Transport Services Limited. Guess who was a Director and Operations Manger? Yep, our Andy. The same Andy that was also Chairman of the football club that was redeveloping the stadium. A clear conflict of interest if there ever was one.
Before the work started a ‘Tenancy at Will’ was agreed with the local Council. For those that don’t know a ‘Tenancy at Will’ is a flexible contract where the landowner gives rights to a tenant to land or property which is unspecific regarding duration or the amount of rent to be paid. This meant the Council continued to own the land whereas Feltham FC were in charge of the development. Remember this. It becomes important later on.
Planning permission was granted including permission for 15,692m3 of soil to be imported onto the site. Equivalent to 1,570 lorry trips. A soil survey in 2012 showed 73,485m3 had been imported. Equivalent to 7,350 lorry trips. Permission had been granted to raise the height of the land by 1.8m. This had been exceeded with estimates for the actual height somewhere between 4 – 4.5m. It was only possible to estimate as the measure for the height of the land was baselined to the steps on the grandstand which was due to be renovated. Conveniently the grandstand had become victim to an arson attack early in the project and had been demolished in 2008. See the picture below to view the site in its current state:
Unsurprisingly the planned redevelopment of the site never happened. The local council investigated through a group of local councillors who produced a report and made recommendations to ensure that something like this would never happen again. Lonsdale repeatedly claims that this report ‘exonerates’ him from any blame. This blog has emailed Andy@herefordunited.co.uk to ask him to explain how the report exonerates him. We’re read the report and cannot see any passage that does. The following are direct quotes from the report:
‘No delineation was made between his [Lonsdale] voluntary and business interests. There was a clear conflict of interest between these two roles and this was a risk factor that was never addressed [by the Council].’
‘material was being imported onto the site prior to planning permission being granted’
‘Mr Lonsdale himself has suggested that an estimated income figure of £360k from the importation of 30,000m3 materials to the site. He has provided calculations to back this up, but not the information that would allow us to verify this, nor the outgoings that were incurred.’
‘The lack of transparency between the respective roles of Feltham FC and All Transport Limited and the relationship with the between them is a key concern for the Task and Finish Group. Whilst the lack of available financial information prevents us from establishing whether any party benefitted financially, it also prevents us from ruling it out.’
‘Much greater care should have been taken to separate and create transparency between Mr Lonsdale’s business and leisure interests in this project’
‘we were concerned to learn that he [Lonsdale] has had quite a number of directorships in the haulage sector, most of which have been liquidated or dissolved.’
‘Lonsdale was convicted on 2008 for dumping 600 lorry loads of waste on green belt land in South Bucks District Council.’
The Council has since been forced to spend over £300,000 to try to salvage use out of the site. Due to the agreed ‘Tenancy at Will’ the Council remained the land owner throughout the works so is liable for the site and its current state. There is no one available to sue as Feltham FC no longer exists and All Transport Services Limited quickly went into liquidation.
The full report can be read here:
democraticservices.hounslow.gov.uk/(S(4k323145mbtlkkujhe1zfy45))/documents/s81461/Feltham%20Arena%20Draft%20Report.pdf
Oh dear. I thought you posted about killing the football club.
My point is this, Feltham had moved from the Feltham Arena long before that due to vandalism at the stadium. They had played at several venues before eventually merging with Bedfont...a deal that was set up between both Bedfont and Feltham FC's and under the Chairmanship of Brian Barry who is STILL Chairman of Bedfont and Feltham FC.
Feltham FC was not killed, it merged with Bedfont to become sustainable. There is no denying that Lonsdale subsequently took advantage of the, then, vacant and derelict old stadium site.
Happy to debate but please don't make things up.
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Post by bullish on Aug 24, 2015 15:36:46 GMT
The official statement from HFC was that they had no involvement or control of any external websites, forums, twitters. That included HFC staff and officials. That suggests Martin was not involved. If people have evidence to the contrary then HFC should be made aware of it, so they can take appropriate action. no - the official statement is that the club have no involvement or control. current tense. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2015 15:53:06 GMT
Well, even that may be true in a certain sense, as the forum is in maintenance mode, that must suggest that someone is at least capable of maintaining it, and has the keys.
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Post by Barney still in B-Block on Aug 24, 2015 15:53:27 GMT
It suggests that MW told them he wasn't involved. Different matter entirely. And I'm in the pinch of salt camp over the veracity of that particular oracle since the Highgate match. Happy to be proved wrong, the malificent Malcolm Lane theory would be a far better answer for all of us. But if you know Martin was involved then it is your duty to tell the club that one of their employees is lying. He lied to me. I don't know if he lied to them. I hope this resolves soon, and I hope MW and the club are the victims of this incredible affair. I hope the club remember they are 'inclusive and transparent' and don't require any more encouragement to prove it. |
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Post by bigglesbull on Aug 24, 2015 16:01:58 GMT
Ex...
The most famous of Andy’s business ventures are his trade waste companies. As aforementioned at the beginning of this article Andy was involved at Feltham and FC. The team were previously based at the Feltham Arena. It fair to say the ground had fallen into a poor state of repair:
For more pictures see www.derelictlondon.com/sportsgrounds.html. Clearly, Feltham FC needed a new stadium for which planning permission was granted in 2007. Feltham began ground shares with various sides before eventually settling at Bedfont FC. Five years later the stadium was still not built. This ground share later became a merger between the two teams. Hmmmm. Lonsdale was appointed President of Feltham and Bedfont FC.
The plan had been with Feltham FC relocated to redevelop the site as a community stadium with additional training pitches. But first the site needed restoring. A key method of paying for the works would be through the receipts generated from lorry loads of soil brought onto the site from local building developments. This soil would be used to remodel the land at the site.
For this work a reputable local company was required. Step forward All Transport Services Limited. Guess who was a Director and Operations Manger? Yep, our Andy. The same Andy that was also Chairman of the football club that was redeveloping the stadium. A clear conflict of interest if there ever was one.
Before the work started a ‘Tenancy at Will’ was agreed with the local Council. For those that don’t know a ‘Tenancy at Will’ is a flexible contract where the landowner gives rights to a tenant to land or property which is unspecific regarding duration or the amount of rent to be paid. This meant the Council continued to own the land whereas Feltham FC were in charge of the development. Remember this. It becomes important later on.
Planning permission was granted including permission for 15,692m3 of soil to be imported onto the site. Equivalent to 1,570 lorry trips. A soil survey in 2012 showed 73,485m3 had been imported. Equivalent to 7,350 lorry trips. Permission had been granted to raise the height of the land by 1.8m. This had been exceeded with estimates for the actual height somewhere between 4 – 4.5m. It was only possible to estimate as the measure for the height of the land was baselined to the steps on the grandstand which was due to be renovated. Conveniently the grandstand had become victim to an arson attack early in the project and had been demolished in 2008. See the picture below to view the site in its current state:
Unsurprisingly the planned redevelopment of the site never happened. The local council investigated through a group of local councillors who produced a report and made recommendations to ensure that something like this would never happen again. Lonsdale repeatedly claims that this report ‘exonerates’ him from any blame. This blog has emailed Andy@herefordunited.co.uk to ask him to explain how the report exonerates him. We’re read the report and cannot see any passage that does. The following are direct quotes from the report:
‘No delineation was made between his [Lonsdale] voluntary and business interests. There was a clear conflict of interest between these two roles and this was a risk factor that was never addressed [by the Council].’
‘material was being imported onto the site prior to planning permission being granted’
‘Mr Lonsdale himself has suggested that an estimated income figure of £360k from the importation of 30,000m3 materials to the site. He has provided calculations to back this up, but not the information that would allow us to verify this, nor the outgoings that were incurred.’
‘The lack of transparency between the respective roles of Feltham FC and All Transport Limited and the relationship with the between them is a key concern for the Task and Finish Group. Whilst the lack of available financial information prevents us from establishing whether any party benefitted financially, it also prevents us from ruling it out.’
‘Much greater care should have been taken to separate and create transparency between Mr Lonsdale’s business and leisure interests in this project’
‘we were concerned to learn that he [Lonsdale] has had quite a number of directorships in the haulage sector, most of which have been liquidated or dissolved.’
‘Lonsdale was convicted on 2008 for dumping 600 lorry loads of waste on green belt land in South Bucks District Council.’
The Council has since been forced to spend over £300,000 to try to salvage use out of the site. Due to the agreed ‘Tenancy at Will’ the Council remained the land owner throughout the works so is liable for the site and its current state. There is no one available to sue as Feltham FC no longer exists and All Transport Services Limited quickly went into liquidation.
The full report can be read here:
democraticservices.hounslow.gov.uk/(S(4k323145mbtlkkujhe1zfy45))/documents/s81461/Feltham%20Arena%20Draft%20Report.pdf
Oh dear. I thought you posted about killing the football club.
My point is this, Feltham had moved from the Feltham Arena long before that due to vandalism at the stadium. They had played at several venues before eventually merging with Bedfont...a deal that was set up between both Bedfont and Feltham FC's and under the Chairmanship of Brian Barry who is STILL Chairman of Bedfont and Feltham FC.
Feltham FC was not killed, it merged with Bedfont to become sustainable. There is no denying that Lonsdale subsequently took advantage of the, then, vacant and derelict old stadium site.
Happy to debate but please don't make things up.
Bloody hell Neville Chamberlin reincarnated. |
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Post by Incognito on Aug 24, 2015 16:07:33 GMT
 Thought it'd go down well |
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Post by bigglesbull on Aug 24, 2015 16:12:19 GMT
Thought it'd go down well wasn't meant as a compliment. |
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Post by Incognito on Aug 24, 2015 16:16:56 GMT
No, because they would have lost the leases by then through the "football must remain" clause.
Next.
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Post by Jean Ralphio Saperstein on Aug 24, 2015 16:22:51 GMT
No, because they would have lost the leases by then through the "football must remain" clause. Next. I am fairly sure the clause doesn't mention football at all and is far more vague (possibly mentioning recreation/leisure)? Easily circumvented |
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Post by bigglesbull on Aug 24, 2015 16:26:01 GMT
www.herefordshire.gov.uk/media/1541176/rdd.pdf9. SALE OF REVERSION The Tenant shall not unreasonably withhold consent to a request made by the Landlord under section 8 of the Landlord and Tenant (Covenants) Act 1995 for a release from all or any of the covenants in this deed falling to be complied with by the Landlord. then maybe let it be redeveloped maybe. Tommy and Co didn't just turn up on the off chance, they must have really believed there was something in it for them.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2015 16:27:43 GMT
Worcester haven't got a ground anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2015 16:35:15 GMT
Ex's rather pointless attempt to show Lonsdale's landfill antics at Feltham in a more positive light does at least raise an interesting ontological question about football clubs - would you consider it more of a continuation if they HAD done something crazy like merge us with a local rival than HFC - an entirely new club in that sense, but much more similar to the original than the merged one would have been, the way I see it (though not SO similar that my reservations about the new club have been overidden by my loyalty to the old club - about which, let's not get into an argument about boycotting!)
God, that came out all convoluted.
You get the gist though I hope (don't bother reaching for the dictionary Grayam, it's not really worth it on this occasion).
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Thought it'd go down well 