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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2015 13:03:39 GMT
The thing is, modern day footballers have everything on a plate. Special diets, special training, I mean just imagine how many goals Charlton would have scored if he'd had a hair transplant. A valid thought, but he did actually - they put it in the wrong place, though.
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Post by oldmeadowender on Sept 9, 2015 14:53:01 GMT
If you are evaluating players, performance in tournaments must surely be at least three times as valuable as performances in friendlies and qualifiers. Of course, if you are looking for a hero who stayed up smoking all night at a World Cup, bleating that he couldn't handle the pressure of being compared to Ronaldo and Messi, and moaning that he had ruined his marriage by being a silly boy and didn't know what to do, well...Sir Bobby Charlton's not your man.
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Post by sortitoutwebbbull on Sept 9, 2015 15:20:12 GMT
If you are evaluating players, performance in tournaments must surely be at least three times as valuable as performances in friendlies and qualifiers. Of course, if you are looking for a hero who stayed up smoking all night at a World Cup, bleating that he couldn't handle the pressure of being compared to Ronaldo and Messi, and moaning that he had ruined his marriage by being a silly boy and didn't know what to do, well...Sir Bobby Charlton's not your man. Not too sure, but did Sir Bobby ever get involved with the NSPCC? Sir Wayne certainly does www.nspcc.org.uk/fighting-for-childhood/news-opinion/wayne-rooney-first-ambassador-for-childhood/
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Post by eggchaserbull on Sept 9, 2015 15:22:29 GMT
The thing is, modern day footballers have everything on a plate. Special diets, special training, I mean just imagine how many goals Charlton would have scored if he'd had a hair transplant. Special diets on a plate, yes I can see that. How does this special training, on a plate, work?
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Post by oldmeadowender on Sept 9, 2015 15:24:08 GMT
If you are evaluating players, performance in tournaments must surely be at least three times as valuable as performances in friendlies and qualifiers. Of course, if you are looking for a hero who stayed up smoking all night at a World Cup, bleating that he couldn't handle the pressure of being compared to Ronaldo and Messi, and moaning that he had ruined his marriage by being a silly boy and didn't know what to do, well...Sir Bobby Charlton's not your man. Not too sure, but did Sir Bobby ever get involved with the NSPCC? Sir Wayne certainly does www.nspcc.org.uk/fighting-for-childhood/news-opinion/wayne-rooney-first-ambassador-for-childhood/Sorry, I thought we were talking about performance in tournaments. Not disputing Wazza might do stuff for charity. They all do.
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Post by sortitoutwebbbull on Sept 9, 2015 15:30:29 GMT
If you are evaluating players, performance in tournaments must surely be at least three times as valuable as performances in friendlies and qualifiers. Of course, if you are looking for a hero who stayed up smoking all night at a World Cup, bleating that he couldn't handle the pressure of being compared to Ronaldo and Messi, and moaning that he had ruined his marriage by being a silly boy and didn't know what to do, well...Sir Bobby Charlton's not your man. Ah sorry - I must of misunderstood - I didn't think you wanted to discuss Sir Wayne's football skills........
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Post by bigglesbull on Sept 9, 2015 15:51:16 GMT
Geoff Hurst scored a hat trick in the world cup final, against what was then classed as the best team in the world. How many world cup goals has Rooney scored. It's about quality not fukin quantity. Oh and by the way none of Hursts were penalties, what is it around 30 out of the 50 goals have come from pens, so luck of the draw he got so many.
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Post by eggchaserbull on Sept 9, 2015 16:10:26 GMT
www.skysports.com/football/news/18804/9978789/the-stats-behind-wayne-rooneys-england-scoring-record
Not quite 30, bigglesbull, Sky Sports reckon that it is 6.
Personally, I don't know whether Rooney's achievement is better than Charlton's, Greaves or Lineker's.
I grew up during the Greaves and Charlton era, and don't recall England losing that often, which makes me think that they were always in the top ten of world teams.
Lineker and Rooney played in England teams that were rarely in that bracket (except in England fans' minds). So I think the fairest comparison is between Lineker and Rooney.
Lineker, for me, is the better goalscorer, Rooney is the better all round player.
Greaves is King
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2015 16:35:37 GMT
And you never saw Bobby Charlton paradimg his rat-faced wife and ugly kids in celebrity magazines like Rooney does.
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Post by oldmeadowender on Sept 9, 2015 17:18:30 GMT
If you are evaluating players, performance in tournaments must surely be at least three times as valuable as performances in friendlies and qualifiers. Of course, if you are looking for a hero who stayed up smoking all night at a World Cup, bleating that he couldn't handle the pressure of being compared to Ronaldo and Messi, and moaning that he had ruined his marriage by being a silly boy and didn't know what to do, well...Sir Bobby Charlton's not your man. Ah sorry - I must of misunderstood - I didn't think you wanted to discuss Sir Wayne's football skills........ Wayne has the football skills of a good Premier League player, not an outstanding one, Germany said he wouldn't even get into there squad, then they went and won the World Cup and we came home after two matches. Next?
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Post by bigglesbull on Sept 9, 2015 17:39:07 GMT
I still maintain quality over quantity, scoring against teams like Germany, Portugal , Brazil etc. in the world cup = quality. Insignificant goals in friendly matches or against lesser teams are not quality and never will be.
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Post by oldmeadowender on Sept 9, 2015 17:52:17 GMT
This sort of debate could be settled far sooner if we all just accepted that everything and everyone pre-1980 is/was a hell of a lot better than everything and everyone since. Wasn't it and weren't they?
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Post by Armchairfan on Sept 9, 2015 18:10:48 GMT
I still maintain quality over quantity, scoring against teams like Germany, Portugal , Brazil etc. in the world cup = quality. Insignificant goals in friendly matches or against lesser teams are not quality and never will be. But the record is that he has scored more than anyone else. Surely by definition that is quantity?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2015 18:25:33 GMT
The way I look at it, the infinitesimal advantage that Rooney has gained by being born into and playing professionally in an era with fitness coaches, dieticians, sports therapy etc, and with his every move on and off the pitch being documented for blanket consumption and playing arguably fewer matches against top quality opposition is probably offset by the skewed perception of the quality of Charlton's era by those old enough to have witnessed it, hampered as it undoubtedly is by the soft focus lens of nostalgia, the hobnail-booted march of time across ancient, misfiring synapses and the fact that every international match was special and memorable because football was infrequently televised in the good old days.
The net effect is that, when all things are considered from my vantage point on the fence, the achievements are roughly analogous.
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Post by oldmeadowender on Sept 9, 2015 18:29:14 GMT
Ridiculous. Bobby Charlton won a World Cup and until he was taken off in 1970 we were heading for the semi-finals of another World Cup. We would have lost in the final to Brazil, the greatest football team there ever was. Bobby Charlton was world class. Wayne Rooney wasn't, isn't and never will be. How is that "roughly analogous"? Give me strength.
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Post by oldmeadowender on Sept 9, 2015 18:35:19 GMT
The way I look at it, the infinitesimal advantage that Rooney has gained by being born into and playing professionally in an era with fitness coaches, dieticians, sports therapy etc, and with his every move on and off the pitch being documented for blanket consumption and playing arguably fewer matches against top quality opposition is probably offset by the skewed perception of the quality of Charlton's era by those old enough to have witnessed it, hampered as it undoubtedly is by the soft focus lens of nostalgia, the hobnail-booted march of time across ancient, misfiring synapses and the fact that every international match was special and memorable because football was infrequently televised in the good old days. The net effect is that, when all things are considered from my vantage point on the fence, the achievements are roughly analogous. Don't tell me. The scurrying rat Messi is better than the supremely elegant and imaginative Pele...
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Post by dsalmon on Sept 9, 2015 18:41:31 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2015 18:46:34 GMT
The way I look at it, the infinitesimal advantage that Rooney has gained by being born into and playing professionally in an era with fitness coaches, dieticians, sports therapy etc, and with his every move on and off the pitch being documented for blanket consumption and playing arguably fewer matches against top quality opposition is probably offset by the skewed perception of the quality of Charlton's era by those old enough to have witnessed it, hampered as it undoubtedly is by the soft focus lens of nostalgia, the hobnail-booted march of time across ancient, misfiring synapses and the fact that every international match was special and memorable because football was infrequently televised in the good old days. The net effect is that, when all things are considered from my vantage point on the fence, the achievements are roughly analogous. Don't tell me. The scurrying rat Messi is better than the supremely elegant and imaginative Pele... "Well, Pele only done one thing..."
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Post by oldmeadowender on Sept 9, 2015 18:48:55 GMT
Look, you can take the p8ss out of people who think it was better in the 1970s and if I hadn't been there I'd do exactly the same. But the fact remains that we had 8,000-17,000 crowds at Edgar Street, we had the super-skilful Brian Evans who was a Welsh international, Dudley Tyler who went to West Ham, Steve Emery, Dixie McNeill who was the top scorer in the whole country. We had T-Rex Telegram Sam, we had The Isley Brothers "Highways of my Life." Then we had Punk. And football-wise we are now living in a tame age. That's just a fact. Sorry you missed it. And in a way I'm sometimes sorry for myself that I didn't miss it. Because if I hadn't been there I'd never have put up with so much sh&t on and off the field ever since. (And don't even get me started on how great the Brazil 1970 team were, and how great the disco music era was for sheer fun getting together with girls.) Obviously things are great now in many different ways. But not for football. Not at Hereford.
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Post by bigglesbull on Sept 9, 2015 18:57:04 GMT
I still maintain quality over quantity, scoring against teams like Germany, Portugal , Brazil etc. in the world cup = quality. Insignificant goals in friendly matches or against lesser teams are not quality and never will be. But the record is that he has scored more than anyone else. Surely by definition that is quantity? yeah it's quantity but one bucket of quality is better than 2 ton of shite.
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