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Post by changeabull on Feb 8, 2019 15:21:54 GMT
Yes. Exactly how it was. In your fevered dreams. Now. Are you going to ignore the humongous contradictions in your recent posts, or can we just agree that you're a bit of a fibber? You are a very odd person it has to be said. I think maybe I'll do what others have done and reign in on my posting until some one normal can take over the running of this forum. Some of ways you come out with your posts is nothing short of cringeworthy. I'm on the Leave side too Jammo, but you're really making an arse of yourself in this thread. I rarely agree with Colebridgebull bit he's made you look very foolish on the last few pages. |
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Post by colebridgebull on Feb 8, 2019 15:41:34 GMT
France and Spain -culture Italy, Greece -history Germany and France- economy Brexit and the so called leadership of this country has damaged this country irreparably on the world stage. Cameron's legacy. Utterly heartbreaking. I mean when you add culture, history and economical strength together, not when you take each category separately. For example Greece may have a fair bit of history but economically it's a basket case that has had to be bailed out by the EU repeatedly. So my point remains that I'd you add culture, history and economic significance together the UK is the Manchester United of the EU. Yes,I take your point that the inept way the government has handled Brexit has damaged our global reputation but that doesn't mean that leaving the EU was a bad idea. As Gigabytes says, we'll have to wait till we actually leave to find that out. If you look at the U.K. Of 2012 in the post Olympics glow, I'd probably agree. Sadly the referendum has torn this country apart. If you want to use the analogy of Manchester United (and, and this is weird, I'd had similar thoughts), the U.K. of 2012 was the U.K. Of Sir Alex. The U.K. Of 2019 is that of David Moyes or, ironically, Tommy Docherty. We need a Norwegian to show us the way forward. |
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Post by Gulliver on Feb 8, 2019 15:43:05 GMT
Totally agree ! Cameron will go down in political history as the arse that f**** up Britain. A few years from now hardly anyone other than the hard right “we won the war and have an empire” nutters will admit to voting leave ... ignorance rules ok ... Cameron only gave the go ahead for the referendum and when he realised he wasn't up to dealing with the unexpected outcome he quickly jumped ship. Unfortunately the reins were taken up by a staunch remainer who has done her utmost to negotiate the worst deal possible, thus creating the instability and uncertainty that now exists. She has betrayed the 17.5 million people who voted to leave and is solely responsible for the chaos that now ensues. I voted to leave and, should the worst come to the worst with a second vote of any kind, I will vote leave again, again and again. To pay to be told what to do, when and how to do it by overpaid, overbearing, malicious monsters in Europe makes me want to vomit. During so-called amicable negotiations they have insulted May, humiliated, ignored and treated her with utter contempt and, whilst I have little or no sympathy for her, having brought most of it on herself, she is still our Prime Minister and this countries representative. |
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Post by eggchaserbull on Feb 8, 2019 15:46:21 GMT
You are a very odd person it has to be said. I think maybe I'll do what others have done and reign in on my posting until some one normal can take over the running of this forum. Some of ways you come out with your posts is nothing short of cringeworthy. I'm on the Leave side too Jammo, but you're really making an arse of yourself in this thread. I rarely agree with Colebridgebull bit he's made you look very foolish on the last few pages. Hey! Don't blame Colebridgebull for that. |
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FASH
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Post by FASH on Feb 8, 2019 15:49:29 GMT
Further to my last post, the FT is now reporting that the Japan-UK trade talks are stalled. Japan has agreed that the UK can roll over the EU-Japan trade deal during the transition period - if no deal, we have no deal with Japan. Tokyo reports that it is confident that it can get better terms from the UK than it did from the "much larger EU". www.ft.com/content/5ce60af2-2b90-11e9-a5ab-ff8ef2b976c7We don't need anything from Japan. We can get it all from China for a quarter of the price. The Japs are not in a good position to negotiate seeing as nearly 50% of their population are retired. They'll probably even throw in freedom of movement to the British to go and look after the old and infirm as they don't have nowhere near enough young people to do the job and it will get significantly worse over the coming years. Japan are pretty much finished as a global powerhouse. |
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Post by colebridgebull on Feb 8, 2019 15:51:33 GMT
Oh God. Are some of you really blaming the EU for this catastrophe?
Tusk's comments the other day were aimed at those who championed BREXIT without any plan as to how to deliver it. Those who lied, lied and lied again.
Has the penny not dropped yet that it is completely undeliverable in any fashion that is going to satisfy those who really agitate for it. To clarify-those who are desperate to protect their ill gotten wealth from the new EU tax transparency laws.
It is absolutely not the fault of the EU or anyone who voted or supports Remain.
If this thing was do-able it would have been done. Don't kid yourselves.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2019 15:58:49 GMT
You are a very odd person it has to be said. I think maybe I'll do what others have done and reign in on my posting until some one normal can take over the running of this forum. Some of ways you come out with your posts is nothing short of cringeworthy. I'm on the Leave side too Jammo, but you're really making an arse of yourself in this thread. I rarely agree with Colebridgebull bit he's made you look very foolish on the last few pages. Yawn. You're not even a genuine poster so I'm honestly surprised that anyone takes you seriously. How many accounts do you have on here again? |
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Post by FASH on Feb 8, 2019 16:03:52 GMT
Of course it's do-able. You just leave. Simple. Out. Gone. Goodbye. A lot of people couldn't give a toss what the financial ramifications are, they're poor any way. Seems like the middle class are the ones who are moaning about Brexit the most.
The EU will soon start negotiating once we've left. They'll have to.
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Post by Palms Halt on Feb 8, 2019 16:43:15 GMT
The Referendum. Was it such a bad thing to allow the people a say in their destiny.? I’d argue any political question put to the people that results in their balloted votes counted up amounts to a good democratic way of running a society. I’m not so sure those that argue against the Referendum aren’t setting themselves in a position that supports a totalitarian method of governance. What do you want? Do you want a group of unelected political appointees with executive power to decide for themselves what is best for you. Essentially, that’s what we have now. The democratically elected parliamentarians meet in Brusells or Strasbourg and they make suggestions to the Executive. It’s the Executive who then decide an outcome that impacts upon us all. Emanuel Macron was asked by Andrew Marr why he wouldn’t ever hold a similar Referndum. His answer was telling. He explained that he would never give his people that choice because they’d possibly vote to Leave. Does that make him a better democratic leader than Mr Cameron? Do you want this for our people? I’m not suggesting for a moment the Referendum has been a glorious success but there are many reasons why it’s evolved into this. Essentially we gave the establishment and the ruling elite an answer that they didn’t want or expect and here we are bickering about something that’s now going to be resolved by politicians who from the outset completely disagreed with the outcome of a democratic process. What do I want? I want us to elect competent people, who ought to know better than you or I, to run this country in the best interests of the people who live here. You could give the electorate the opportunity to vote on every single thing that goes through parliament, but we know it'd be absolute chaos. |
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Post by changeabull on Feb 8, 2019 17:07:12 GMT
The Referendum. Was it such a bad thing to allow the people a say in their destiny.? I’d argue any political question put to the people that results in their balloted votes counted up amounts to a good democratic way of running a society. I’m not so sure those that argue against the Referendum aren’t setting themselves in a position that supports a totalitarian method of governance. What do you want? Do you want a group of unelected political appointees with executive power to decide for themselves what is best for you. Essentially, that’s what we have now. The democratically elected parliamentarians meet in Brusells or Strasbourg and they make suggestions to the Executive. It’s the Executive who then decide an outcome that impacts upon us all. Emanuel Macron was asked by Andrew Marr why he wouldn’t ever hold a similar Referndum. His answer was telling. He explained that he would never give his people that choice because they’d possibly vote to Leave. Does that make him a better democratic leader than Mr Cameron? Do you want this for our people? I’m not suggesting for a moment the Referendum has been a glorious success but there are many reasons why it’s evolved into this. Essentially we gave the establishment and the ruling elite an answer that they didn’t want or expect and here we are bickering about something that’s now going to be resolved by politicians who from the outset completely disagreed with the outcome of a democratic process. What do I want? I want us to elect competent people, who ought to know better than you or I, to run this country in the best interests of the people who live here. You could give the electorate the opportunity to vote on every single thing that goes through parliament, but we know it'd be absolute chaos. That's the odd thing about remainers. They're furious that there should ever have been a referendum in the first place then in the next breath they demand a second referendum as a "People's Vote" (and presumably another one after that, then another one until they eventually get the result they want). You either believe referendums are a good idea or a bad idea. You can't decide that democracy is only a good thing if the people vote the way you want them to. |
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Post by colebridgebull on Feb 8, 2019 17:19:24 GMT
Don't tar all remainers with the same brush. I have no wish for a second referendum (nor the first in truth). It would solve nothing.
The politicians of this country are paid (relatively well) to make decisions for the good of the country (at least that's the theory).
As such, matters of such fundamental constitutional importance and complexity should never, ever be put to the public vote. Otherwise you get the mess we're now in.
My preference. Someone with the cojones to stand up and say that the whole thing was a ridiculous mistake, call it off and face the flack from a few angry hi-vis jacket wearing shouty people until they get bored and go back to the pub.
Sadly, this country is in the hands of people in thrall to the front page of the national press. What an absolute clusterfeck.
I see no great desire for a second referendum in my echo chamber.
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Post by colebridgebull on Feb 8, 2019 18:15:59 GMT
Erm. Aren't we already ruled by an Executive power?
While we as an electorate vote in members of Parliament, that's as far as it goes. We don't vote in a "Government", a cabinet or a Prime Minister. All of these are chosen once we cast our vote at the ballot boxes. We don't vote in the sovereign Head of State. That's an accident of birth. We don't vote in the House of Lords-the appointments there are either as a result of accidents of birth or political patronage.
Crucially, we don't elect the civil servants (aka the bureaucrats) who actually do the work. Unelected, unaccountable yet wielding massive influence over every aspect of this country.
i didn't vote for David Davis to do sweet FA while hoovering up public money in salary and expenses as Brexit secretary. Or Raab.
i didn't vote for Eton educated liar Johnson to make this country a laughing stock while bumbling around the world at our expense. Or for fabulously wealthy tax dodger Rees-Mogg to represent himself as a man of the people battling against the elite. Or failed banker and serial election loser and overt Racist Farage to take Putin's rouble to line his pockets at our expense while preaching hate.
If you want to see corruption, then you don't need to cross the channel to see it at its most obvious and venal.
The bottom line is that the influence of the EU has been overstated again and again.
We are a sovereign nation
We do make our own laws
We do control our own borders
We do retain our own currency
We are outside Schengen
We don't have a ban on bendy bananas
We drive on the other side of the road
We retain our own language(s)
We are also a major player in one of the largest trading blocs on the planet. Individually we pay a small monthly amount. For the benefits of trade agreements negotiated from a position of strength.
What actual opportunities will BREXIT bring? What laws will we make that we can't currently make. Where is the money for the regeneration of our cities and rundown areas going to come from. What do we have that other countries covet? What industry is left?
There is no point in looking back to pre 1973. Please, someone, spell out precisely what this is all intended to achieve. Because I've been asking and asking, but no-one seems to be able to assist.
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Post by Monkey Tennis on Feb 8, 2019 19:39:03 GMT
Erm. Aren't we already ruled by an Executive power? While we as an electorate vote in members of Parliament, that's as far as it goes. We don't vote in a "Government", a cabinet or a Prime Minister. All of these are chosen once we cast our vote at the ballot boxes. We don't vote in the sovereign Head of State. That's an accident of birth. We don't vote in the House of Lords-the appointments there are either as a result of accidents of birth or political patronage. Crucially, we don't elect the civil servants (aka the bureaucrats) who actually do the work. Unelected, unaccountable yet wielding massive influence over every aspect of this country. i didn't vote for David Davis to do sweet FA while hoovering up public money in salary and expenses as Brexit secretary. Or Raab. i didn't vote for Eton educated liar Johnson to make this country a laughing stock while bumbling around the world at our expense. Or for fabulously wealthy tax dodger Rees-Mogg to represent himself as a man of the people battling against the elite. Or failed banker and serial election loser and overt Racist Farage to take Putin's rouble to line his pockets at our expense while preaching hate. If you want to see corruption, then you don't need to cross the channel to see it at its most obvious and venal. The bottom line is that the influence of the EU has been overstated again and again. We are a sovereign nation We do make our own laws We do control our own borders We do retain our own currency We are outside Schengen We don't have a ban on bendy bananasWe drive on the other side of the road We retain our own language(s) We are also a major player in one of the largest trading blocs on the planet. Individually we pay a small monthly amount. For the benefits of trade agreements negotiated from a position of strength. What actual opportunities will BREXIT bring? What laws will we make that we can't currently make. Where is the money for the regeneration of our cities and rundown areas going to come from. What do we have that other countries covet? What industry is left? There is no point in looking back to pre 1973. Please, someone, spell out precisely what this is all intended to achieve. Because I've been asking and asking, but no-one seems to be able to assist. I do. |
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Post by ronnieclayton on Feb 8, 2019 20:13:57 GMT
Humphrey Davy invented the Davy lamp - any fule kno that.
Its less well known that he spent the later years of his life perfecting the straight cucumber.
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Post by changeabull on Feb 8, 2019 20:15:11 GMT
My preference. Someone with the cojones to stand up and say that the whole thing was a ridiculous mistake, call it off and face the flack from a few angry hi-vis jacket wearing shouty people until they get bored and go back to the pub. Which is about the worst possible thing we could do. If we admit we're incapable of leaving the EU then that's our greatest weapon gone and the EU really would have us over a barrel. Several Prime Minister's have tried reforming the UK's position within the EU and all we get are a few meaningless token concessions. Effectively we'd be reduced to being the cash cow for the EU's basket case countries, paying millions a week to bail out their economies while being powerless to stop their people coming over here to take our jobs and utlise our schools and hospitals. Did anyone vote for that? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2019 20:17:03 GMT
My preference. Someone with the cojones to stand up and say that the whole thing was a ridiculous mistake, call it off and face the flack from a few angry hi-vis jacket wearing shouty people until they get bored and go back to the pub. Which is about the worst possible thing we could do. If we admit we're incapable of leaving the EU What are going to do European Footballer wise after 29/3? |
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Post by colebridgebull on Feb 8, 2019 20:27:14 GMT
My preference. Someone with the cojones to stand up and say that the whole thing was a ridiculous mistake, call it off and face the flack from a few angry hi-vis jacket wearing shouty people until they get bored and go back to the pub. Which is about the worst possible thing we could do. If we admit we're incapable of leaving the EU then that's our greatest weapon gone and the EU really would have us over a barrel. several Prime Minister's have tried reforming the UK's position within the EU and all we get are a few meaningless token concessions. Effectively we'd be reduced to beingg the cash cow for the EU's basket case countries, Outside Schengen Outside the Eurozone Hardly meaningless. The U.K. Has enjoyed more meaningful concessions than the remaining 26 combined. And given the amount of EU money invested in Liverpool, Manchester, Cardiff, Birmingham etc etc etc together with the money paid to our farmers in subsidies, it's hardly money pissed up the wall. there was an extremely good post earlier in the thread explaining how money invested in the less well off countries was benefitting all. |
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Post by mikeunderpenyard on Feb 8, 2019 20:28:56 GMT
Feck the football, what about the song contest?
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Post by Palms Halt on Feb 8, 2019 20:38:56 GMT
What do I want? I want us to elect competent people, who ought to know better than you or I, to run this country in the best interests of the people who live here. You could give the electorate the opportunity to vote on every single thing that goes through parliament, but we know it'd be absolute chaos. That's the odd thing about remainers. They're furious that there should ever have been a referendum in the first place then in the next breath they demand a second referendum as a "People's Vote" (and presumably another one after that, then another one until they eventually get the result they want). You either believe referendums are a good idea or a bad idea. You can't decide that democracy is only a good thing if the people vote the way you want them to. Weird to say that after quoting my post that clearly says nothing about wanting another referendum |
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Post by changeabull on Feb 8, 2019 20:39:03 GMT
Which is about the worst possible thing we could do. If we admit we're incapable of leaving the EU then that's our greatest weapon gone and the EU really would have us over a barrel. several Prime Minister's have tried reforming the UK's position within the EU and all we get are a few meaningless token concessions. Effectively we'd be reduced to beingg the cash cow for the EU's basket case countries, Outside Schengen Outside the Eurozone Hardly meaningless. The U.K. Has enjoyed more meaningful concessions than the remaining 26 combined. And given the amount of EU money invested in Liverpool, Manchester, Cardiff, Birmingham etc etc etc together with the money paid to our farmers in subsidies, it's hardly money pissed up the wall.. But we pay far more into the EU the we get out of it so the EU hasn't invested a single penny in the UK, it's simply given back a fraction of what we paid them! Even if you don't believe the £350 million a week claim, most independent sources say that we pay between £150 million and £250 million a week to the EU. I'm sure I made the analogy earlier in the thread but it's like your mate asking you to give him a tenner to buy you a drink then pocketing the change for himself! |
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