Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2019 14:44:30 GMT
Absolute rubbish every scaremongering forecast people have made about Brexit so far has been miles out. Take all this stuff we have now about people saying there's going to be no more food left. Those people who peddle that nonsense are the real liars here. We export massive quantities abroad, 30% goes in the bin and another lot never even makes the shelf because its not deemed to be pretty enough. Its amazing how half of the remain side accepted the result without any bother, the rest seem to have completely lost the plot and throw all common sense right out the window. What was it that girl famously said on ITV. If we leave the Eu does that still mean we will have trees? And oh yes she was a big big remainer. But of course only the stupid ones voted leave... On your food commentary www.gov.uk/government/publications/food-statistics-pocketbook-2017/food-statistics-in-your-pocket-2017-global-and-uk-supply#uk-trade-in-different-food-groups-2017See table 3.4. We import more than we export in virtually every food category. The biggest trade deficit is in fruit and veg and meat. I expect that pretty much all of this food (can't find a citation for this easily, correct me if you can) comes either from the EU or via EU arranged trade deals. If we no deal, then I presume that makes things pretty bleak for a lot of our food in early April? I'm afraid you are an incredibly naïve person who will believe almost anything if it suits the narrative. I know many people, friends and family who work from the farm, to the packaging firms to the supermarkets. I can tell you without any shadow of a doubt that there is absolutely no chance that there will be huge food shortages in the immediate aftermath of any Brexit deal or indeed no deal. For a start sales of new season lamb starts in April and you still have old season lambs from the year before meaning its one of the busiest market periods. In the absolute worst case scenario I can only see certain high brand or unique food items going into short supply. There's no way that we'll simply run out of food in a couple of weeks. Sure supermarkets will say they don't want no deal they'll soon change their tune if it does happen because they'll know that any form of panic would be completely unnecessary. Most farmers have held back till now and warehouses are stacked to the roof. Supermarkets would also stop refusing to sell food because it isn't exactly the right shape. (ill leave a link below). Everyone in the food industry knows that supplies will last a long period of time even with no deal. Do you really think we're going to stop boats coming in with NZ lamb or fruit and veg from South America? Its a wasted argument in any case because no deal will not happen, but major food shortages wont either. Its like none of you have ever heard of the term contingency planning. www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34647454
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Post by Palms Halt on Feb 7, 2019 14:50:46 GMT
It's a horrible feeling knowing that being proven right will bring such misery to a large proportion of the population, but by the same token, there will be tiny gains to be had from seeing people like Jammo being shown up for what they really are.
Not that that will soften the blow of the situation that much.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2019 14:56:28 GMT
It's a horrible feeling knowing that being proven right will bring such misery to a large proportion of the population, but by the same token, there will be tiny gains to be had from seeing people like Jammo being shown up for what they really are. Not that that will soften the blow of the situation that much. Proven right? What about Venezuela. Yet you still like to preach your socialist claptrap on here 24/7.
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Gaz
Junior Member
I don't know nothing 'bout no three at the back, I'm just a simple blacksmith
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Post by Gaz on Feb 7, 2019 14:58:16 GMT
My personal interest in this whole bag of rats comes from trying to understand human behaviour. And it’s very relevant. There’s a third of a billion years behind the evolution of humankind that determines how we all behave within a hierarchical structure. Some do all they can to remain within the hirearchy and some do what they can to escape it. Those who choose their ideological group to follow do it because they’re wired up to do it. For the most part the Remain side choose to argue their belief in their chosen ideology because they want many things to remain the same. Change essentially frightens this group because change in their minds is to step out and away from the comfort of their ideological group and the safety of their hirearchy. It’s similar behaviour to creatures who under duress do what comes naturally. They flock together to confuse the predator, maintain the hirearchy in numbers and ignore any compulsions to go it alone and keep themselves safe. They the Remainers do this because they’re wired up to do this. To them, it makes perfect sense. Why change something that they’ve become used to and feel safe within and take a chance or opportunity to alter the structure of the ruling hirearchy. For this group they are wired to be extremely susceptible to fear and when they’re threatened by words of fear they very naturally submit to it. They simply can’t help it. Those like me who choose to Leave are very different. In many ways they reject the hierarchical structure and look beyond the confines of its safety and established order. This group, and it’s nothing to do with ones Intelligence Quotient, are not frightened by words that are designed to make one conform because they’re supposed to become frightened. The opposite happens. The social engineering has no impact upon them. Indeed, they become emboldened by their ideological beliefs and are fully prepared to defy their betters and go their own way. Leaves like me will question what’s been done to Greece and Italy and wonder how bad it can get before others wake up is never addressed by the Remainers. We might question why the Commision of the EU decided to create their own army just because Trump rightly asked them to pay their way toward NATO defence. The Remainers won’t do that because they’re locked into the ideological beliefs that dictate to them that it’s not worth thinking about because it really doesn’t matter. A European Army holds no fears to them. They’ll agree to it because they are unable to see beyond the now and the relative safety they find within their hierarchical group. And the Remainers will win the day. They’ll win because they’re destined to win. Just like most cellular life on the planet who naturally build hierarchy’s within their own environment, we’re all destined to be a small component part within a hirearchy of our own creation. The consolation is that in time, just like the Soviet Union, this hirearchy that’s divided our nation will quickly crumble and fall. Then we’ll all flock together, because that’s how we wired up to act, and we’ll build another hirearchy that begins with a noble cause that eventually becomes corrupted. Then, just like the hierarchical structure of the present EU, it’ll become tyrannical and off we go again mobilising people who are susceptible to the politics of fear and who’s only purpose is to maintain their position within the hirearchy that convinces them that it’s safe and certain and there’s nothing at all to worry about. It works every time. It worked in Mao’ist China, it worked in Stalin’s Russia and it worked in Germany during the tyrannical rule of Hitler. Give the people an ideology to follow that promises much and delivers little and they’ll grab a hold of it every time. The European Union is, in terms of ideological belief no diffent in its origins. Bloody hell Maverick, calm down.
I voted remain because I don't want the fact a bunch of old blokes are scared of the Polish and straight bananas to mean the company I work for can't easily buy and sell with it's largest suppliers and customers.
<iframe style="position: absolute; width: 19.519999999999982px; height: 13.799999999999955px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_77163259" scrolling="no" width="19.519999999999982" height="13.799999999999955"></iframe> <iframe style="position: absolute; width: 19.52px; height: 13.8px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 920px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_80129296" scrolling="no" width="19.519999999999982" height="13.799999999999955"></iframe> <iframe style="position: absolute; width: 19.52px; height: 13.8px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 621px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_67090582" scrolling="no" width="19.519999999999982" height="13.799999999999955"></iframe> <iframe style="position: absolute; width: 19.52px; height: 13.8px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 920px; top: 621px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_96617413" scrolling="no" width="19.519999999999982" height="13.799999999999955"></iframe> Thank christ there's intelligent people like you to head off WW3 whilst the common folk like me just worry about the day in day out actual reality.
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Post by Differentiabull on Feb 7, 2019 15:01:12 GMT
I'm afraid you are an incredibly naïve person who will believe almost anything if it suits the narrative. I know many people, friends and family who work from the farm, to the packaging firms to the supermarkets. I can tell you without any shadow of a doubt that there is absolutely no chance that there will be huge food shortages in the immediate aftermath of any Brexit deal or indeed no deal. For a start sales of new season lamb starts in April and you still have old season lambs from the year before meaning its one of the busiest market periods. In the absolute worst case scenario I can only see certain high brand or unique food items going into short supply. There's no way that we'll simply run out of food in a couple of weeks. Sure supermarkets will say they don't want no deal they'll soon change their tune if it does happen because they'll know that any form of panic would be completely unnecessary. Most farmers have held back till now and warehouses are stacked to the roof. Supermarkets would also stop refusing to sell food because it isn't exactly the right shape. (ill leave a link below). Everyone in the food industry knows that supplies will last a long period of time even with no deal. Do you really think we're going to stop boats coming in with NZ lamb or fruit and veg from South America? Its a wasted argument in any case because no deal will not happen, but major food shortages wont either. Its like none of you have ever heard of the term contingency planning. www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34647454If you say so, if you have inside knowledge I defer to you. I've just looked up some stats and it just seems like we need to quickly adjust where we're getting food from currently. I've also grown vegetables all life, and in my garden April and May are the worst months of the year for growing stuff in UK. All the over wintering stuff has finished, and the new stuff hasn't come online. We'll see what happens. Hope we've stockpiled the turnips and swedes.
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Post by changeabull on Feb 7, 2019 15:02:35 GMT
Out of interest I wonder if anyone on here (or any other messageboard for that matter) has changed their opinion on Brexit as a consequence of what something someone on the opposite side has posted?
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Post by changeabull on Feb 7, 2019 15:05:05 GMT
It's a horrible feeling knowing that being proven right will bring such misery to a large proportion of the population, but by the same token, there will be tiny gains to be had from seeing people like Jammo being shown up for what they really are. How do you know, have you been to the future? Brexit hasn't happened yet. I'm sure even you've noticed that.
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Post by lexington on Feb 7, 2019 15:07:52 GMT
If you say so, if you have inside knowledge I defer to you. I've just looked up some stats and it just seems like we need to quickly adjust where we're getting food from currently. I've also grown vegetables all life, and in my garden April and May are the worst months of the year for growing stuff in UK. All the over wintering stuff has finished, and the new stuff hasn't come online. We'll see what happens. Hope we've stockpiled the turnips and swedes. As we allowed to stockpile Swedes? Is that in anticipation of ever other Fecker leaving? It's also helpful to know that everything that the ONS produces is tractor production statistics. Must be full of communists.
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Gaz
Junior Member
I don't know nothing 'bout no three at the back, I'm just a simple blacksmith
Posts: 77
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Post by Gaz on Feb 7, 2019 15:17:53 GMT
Out of interest I wonder if anyone on here (or any other messageboard for that matter) has changed their opinion on Brexit as a consequence of what something someone on the opposite side has posted? <iframe style="position: absolute; width: 19.860000000000014px; height: 3.240000000000009px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_38366980" scrolling="no" width="19.860000000000014" height="3.240000000000009"></iframe> <iframe style="position: absolute; width: 19.86px; height: 3.24px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 937px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_59639803" scrolling="no" width="19.860000000000014" height="3.240000000000009"></iframe> <iframe style="position: absolute; width: 19.86px; height: 3.24px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 102px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_48068041" scrolling="no" width="19.860000000000014" height="3.240000000000009"></iframe> <iframe style="position: absolute; width: 19.86px; height: 3.24px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 937px; top: 102px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_58925657" scrolling="no" width="19.860000000000014" height="3.240000000000009"></iframe> Excellent point, if this site can't convince me that Jamie Bird was worth keeping, what chance is there of convincing me the free market it terrible
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Post by Palms Halt on Feb 7, 2019 15:50:56 GMT
It's a horrible feeling knowing that being proven right will bring such misery to a large proportion of the population, but by the same token, there will be tiny gains to be had from seeing people like Jammo being shown up for what they really are. How do you know, have you been to the future? Brexit hasn't happened yet. I'm sure even you've noticed that. I'm not saying that I will be proven right. I'm saying that it's a horrible feeling that if I'm right, loads will suffer. I thought even you would figure that out.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2019 15:53:02 GMT
Fun Bobby wrote: There’s a third of a billion years behind the evolution of humankind that determines how we all behave within a hierarchical structure. And that's as far as I managed to get. I'm sure the rest of it was super-fun.
PAOLO wrote: I wonder if anyone on here (or any other messageboard for that matter) has changed their opinion on Brexit
I voted Leave. Given another chance I would vote Leave x 2.
Jammo wrote: But of course only the stupid ones voted leave... Welcome to the dark side. It's taken you a long time to see sense.
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Post by Palms Halt on Feb 7, 2019 15:53:15 GMT
It's a horrible feeling knowing that being proven right will bring such misery to a large proportion of the population, but by the same token, there will be tiny gains to be had from seeing people like Jammo being shown up for what they really are. Not that that will soften the blow of the situation that much. Proven right? What about Venezuela. Yet you still like to preach your socialist claptrap on here 24/7. Perfect, Jammo. Absolutely perfect.
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Post by changeabull on Feb 7, 2019 16:01:34 GMT
I read that one justification for the Remain argument is that other countries are keen to join. Of course they are. Every single one of them has a GDP that just about beats the economic output of Herefordshire. These are very poor countries. Why wouldn’t they want to join. They want the money and I don’t blame them. The problem is that every year six billion quid of British earned money is being diverted to the poor countries to ease their poverty. It’s a noble cause of course but it makes no economic sense unless you believe in utopia or some abstract communistic ideology and your content for us to become poorer and to increase our economic competitors that’ll be created with our own money. Some argue that our GDP cannot compete with that of the European Union and I fully accept it will be difficult in the short term to adjust. But, you all fail to realise that the British GDP is huge in comparison to many member states. Take the poorest 19 member states of the Union and total up their combined economic GDP output and activity and lumped together and combined they won’t match the GDP of Britain. It’s not a lie. It’s a fact. We are not in any danger. You simply choose to believe the propaganda that’s designed to frighten you. Some argue we voted Leave because we hate foreigners. Again it’s madness. Whilst Free Movement Of People was a huge factor in the Leave vote, it wasn’t considered because we’re all bigoted. The people, and I’m one of them, decided that depositing 4 million people within Britain in a realively short space of time without the proper infrastructure to cope, presented an impossible challenge to the indigenous population to manage without the risk of losing their hard earned public services and allowing our own to become poorer and more vulnerable. It’s got nothing to do with hate or any other negative. It’s entirely down to the British rejection of a socio economic policy. It’s got nothing to do with bigotry. They tell you that we’ll starve. We can’t fly across European Air Space. You’ll die because you won’t be given your medication. Nothing will get out of Britain. Nothing will get in. The current Bank Of England Mark Carney tells you you’re about to hurtle off the fiscal abyss and you believe it all. Yet, his predecessor Mervyn King tells you the exact opposite and you choose to ignore it because by ignoring it you convince yourselves that you must be right and everyone else is stupid. It’s madness and a lot of seemingly bright and intelligent people are infected with this msss delusional force that’s stopped any sane and rational thinking. That's such a rational and sensible post that I'm going to steal it and pass it off as my own on other messageboards. It's interesting that on Brexit threads on this and other forums, it's the leave voters who tend to argue with logic and rationality while the remainers primarily resort to hysteria and childish name-calling.
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Post by eggchaserbull on Feb 7, 2019 16:05:41 GMT
I don't see any signs of any other countries trying to leave right now. More queuing up to join than leave, certainly. GDP of EU27 is around 8 times that of the UK. Why would they compromise a ~ $19 trillion economy to accommodate a $2.6 trillion one? We're over a barrel. There's arguments for Brexit, but not an economic one. That's just one of the unicorns. Absolute rubbish every scaremongering forecast people have made about Brexit so far has been miles out. Take all this stuff we have now about people saying there's going to be no more food left. Those people who peddle that nonsense are the real liars here. We export massive quantities abroad, 30% goes in the bin and another lot never even makes the shelf because its not deemed to be pretty enough. Its amazing how half of the remain side accepted the result without any bother, the rest seem to have completely lost the plot and throw all common sense right out the window. What was it that girl famously said on ITV. If we leave the Eu does that still mean we will have trees? And oh yes she was a big big remainer. But of course only the stupid ones voted leave... I think you need to turn your hearing aid up if you want to understand the complexities of Brexit. I think you'll find that she said cheese. Monkey should be able to confirm that.
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Post by Differentiabull on Feb 7, 2019 17:21:01 GMT
It's interesting that on Brexit threads on this and other forums, it's the leave voters who tend to argue with logic and rationality while the remainers primarily resort to hysteria and childish name-calling. I find that both sides are as bad as each other to be honest, and as someone observed above, I doubt that those passionately involved in the debate have any chance at all of altering their position. We're all wasting our time on this thread, but there's an element of catharsis in it so we keep doing it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2019 17:27:46 GMT
I find this thread useful as, whilst many of the views are pretty extreme, you get a real sense of how deep the problem is. Binary decisions are not going to solve anything and being right is less important than being effective. A respectable and pragmatic leader is desperately and urgently needed. Sadly, I can't see anybody on the horizon who fits the bill.
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Post by Differentiabull on Feb 7, 2019 18:13:19 GMT
I don't know whether others find this, but I find Brexit a far more 'bubbling' issue then traditional left v right politics. Within my social circles, friends, work colleagues, there's a range from dyed in the wool card carrying Tories all the way through to militant Corbynistas - and everything between the two as well. I've felt I've always been exposed to a range of political views.
But I can't find anyone in my social circle who (at least admits to) voted for Brexit. I live in a complete echo chamber - I can safely launch into a tirade against Brexit in any circumstance knowing that it's never going to be a contentious subject, because everyone will agree with me.
My conclusion is that is just an issue that seems to be driven by age and outlook - my generation and social class has grown up in international world where patriotism seems quaint and national borders only matter so that sport is a bit more fun. And so withdrawing from an international construct because other people have funny accents and because we need to put the Great back into Great Britain just seems a bit embarrassing.
That's the ideological level. On a practical level I like having money in my own pocket, and I'm fortunate enough that I can afford to care about other people having money in their pockets too. It took me a long time before I realised that for some people these ideas of sovereignty and control are more important than money in your pocket. Before that, I couldn't for the life of me understand why people voted to be poorer.
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Post by Barney still in B-Block on Feb 7, 2019 18:45:23 GMT
I don't know whether others find this, but I find Brexit a far more 'bubbling' issue then traditional left v right politics. Within my social circles, friends, work colleagues, there's a range from dyed in the wool card carrying Tories all the way through to militant Corbynistas - and everything between the two as well. I've felt I've always been exposed to a range of political views. But I can't find anyone in my social circle who (at least admits to) voted for Brexit. I live in a complete echo chamber - I can safely launch into a tirade against Brexit in any circumstance knowing that it's never going to be a contentious subject, because everyone will agree with me. My conclusion is that is just an issue that seems to be driven by age and outlook - my generation and social class has grown up in international world where patriotism seems quaint and national borders only matter so that sport is a bit more fun. And so withdrawing from an international construct because other people have funny accents and because we need to put the Great back into Great Britain just seems a bit embarrassing. That's the ideological level. On a practical level I like having money in my own pocket, and I'm fortunate enough that I can afford to care about other people having money in their pockets too. It took me a long time before I realised that for some people these ideas of sovereignty and control are more important than money in your pocket. Before that, I couldn't for the life of me understand why people voted to be poorer. Beautifully put, and similar, but not completely the same here. Couple of slightly older lads I play golf with are very pro-Brexit. Both well-educated, (extremely) comfortably retired, and both more than pleasant company, generous of their time, and always first to the bar. We've discussed these things multiple times, neither party remotely likely to change position. Funny old world.
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Post by Monkey Tennis on Feb 7, 2019 19:18:07 GMT
Absolute rubbish every scaremongering forecast people have made about Brexit so far has been miles out. Take all this stuff we have now about people saying there's going to be no more food left. Those people who peddle that nonsense are the real liars here. We export massive quantities abroad, 30% goes in the bin and another lot never even makes the shelf because its not deemed to be pretty enough. Its amazing how half of the remain side accepted the result without any bother, the rest seem to have completely lost the plot and throw all common sense right out the window. What was it that girl famously said on ITV. If we leave the Eu does that still mean we will have trees? And oh yes she was a big big remainer. But of course only the stupid ones voted leave... I think you need to turn your hearing aid up if you want to understand the complexities of Brexit. I think you'll find that she said cheese. Monkey should be able to confirm that. Yes. Though hardly my finest hour (as correctly pointed out to me in The Barrels by chinashop some months ago), the "C" word was most certainly uttered.
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Post by gefod on Feb 7, 2019 22:53:21 GMT
Any thoughts on Tusk’s speech?
Was that his Kinky Ken moment?
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