Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2019 23:20:48 GMT
I don't know whether others find this, but I find Brexit a far more 'bubbling' issue then traditional left v right politics. Within my social circles, friends, work colleagues, there's a range from dyed in the wool card carrying Tories all the way through to militant Corbynistas - and everything between the two as well. I've felt I've always been exposed to a range of political views. But I can't find anyone in my social circle who (at least admits to) voted for Brexit. I live in a complete echo chamber - I can safely launch into a tirade against Brexit in any circumstance knowing that it's never going to be a contentious subject, because everyone will agree with me. My conclusion is that is just an issue that seems to be driven by age and outlook - my generation and social class has grown up in international world where patriotism seems quaint and national borders only matter so that sport is a bit more fun. And so withdrawing from an international construct because other people have funny accents and because we need to put the Great back into Great Britain just seems a bit embarrassing. That's the ideological level. On a practical level I like having money in my own pocket, and I'm fortunate enough that I can afford to care about other people having money in their pockets too. It took me a long time before I realised that for some people these ideas of sovereignty and control are more important than money in your pocket. Before that, I couldn't for the life of me understand why people voted to be poorer. No one voted to be poorer, they voted for a better country and endless possibilities for the future. The sad thing in all this is how the EU is allowed to get away with murder on every level. People just brush off their dodgy dealings as nothing. I think most people who voted for Brexit feel vindicated in that we now see remainers coming out showing the arrogance they always have. You also fail to realise how many young people have parents/grandparents or them themselves who come from another country. No one picks up on that in the news. 50% of London is probably like that and of course they are going to vote Brexit because they almost feel guilty not to, even though they have no idea what the EU even is. These people feel less British because they probably are in the sense that they have a large attachment to another country. Its not even a small per centage either. We're probably talking millions of votes here. |
|
|
|
Post by Gresty on Feb 7, 2019 23:46:21 GMT
I confess that you have lost me there.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2019 23:51:16 GMT
And you won’t find such a leader my friend. They’re not out there. The sad reality is that the vast majority of all our democratically elected politicians are they’re white males, middle class, with average intelligence who’ve recieved a good education. It’s only their good education thst masks a real truth. Behind their glossy presentation skills every single one of them is as stupid as the rest of us. Only too true and the best post you've made on the forum to date. |
|
|
|
Post by mikeunderpenyard on Feb 7, 2019 23:52:05 GMT
I don't know whether others find this, but I find Brexit a far more 'bubbling' issue then traditional left v right politics. Within my social circles, friends, work colleagues, there's a range from dyed in the wool card carrying Tories all the way through to militant Corbynistas - and everything between the two as well. I've felt I've always been exposed to a range of political views. But I can't find anyone in my social circle who (at least admits to) voted for Brexit. I live in a complete echo chamber - I can safely launch into a tirade against Brexit in any circumstance knowing that it's never going to be a contentious subject, because everyone will agree with me. My conclusion is that is just an issue that seems to be driven by age and outlook - my generation and social class has grown up in international world where patriotism seems quaint and national borders only matter so that sport is a bit more fun. And so withdrawing from an international construct because other people have funny accents and because we need to put the Great back into Great Britain just seems a bit embarrassing. That's the ideological level. On a practical level I like having money in my own pocket, and I'm fortunate enough that I can afford to care about other people having money in their pockets too. It took me a long time before I realised that for some people these ideas of sovereignty and control are more important than money in your pocket. Before that, I couldn't for the life of me understand why people voted to be poorer. No one voted to be poorer, they voted for a better country and endless possibilities for the future. The sad thing in all this is how the EU is allowed to get away with murder on every level. People just brush off their dodgy dealings as nothing. I think most people who voted for Brexit feel vindicated in that we now see remainers coming out showing the arrogance they always have. You also fail to realise how many young people have parents/grandparents or them themselves who come from another country. No one picks up on that in the news. 50% of London is probably like that and of course they are going to vote Brexit because they almost feel guilty not to, even though they have no idea what the EU even is. These people feel less British because they probably are in the sense that they have a large attachment to another country. Its not even a small per centage either. We're probably talking millions of votes here. fair play mate you don't half spout some bollox. I mean,it's almost laughable. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2019 0:06:37 GMT
No one voted to be poorer, they voted for a better country and endless possibilities for the future. The sad thing in all this is how the EU is allowed to get away with murder on every level. People just brush off their dodgy dealings as nothing. I think most people who voted for Brexit feel vindicated in that we now see remainers coming out showing the arrogance they always have. You also fail to realise how many young people have parents/grandparents or them themselves who come from another country. No one picks up on that in the news. 50% of London is probably like that and of course they are going to vote Brexit because they almost feel guilty not to, even though they have no idea what the EU even is. These people feel less British because they probably are in the sense that they have a large attachment to another country. Its not even a small per centage either. We're probably talking millions of votes here. fair play mate you don't half spout some bollox. I mean,it's almost laughable. Its not laughable at all. If you really think people didn't vote remain for that reason then you obviously haven't been looking at the remain side at all. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2019 0:08:32 GMT
I don't know whether others find this, but I find Brexit a far more 'bubbling' issue then traditional left v right politics. Within my social circles, friends, work colleagues, there's a range from dyed in the wool card carrying Tories all the way through to militant Corbynistas - and everything between the two as well. I've felt I've always been exposed to a range of political views. But I can't find anyone in my social circle who (at least admits to) voted for Brexit. I live in a complete echo chamber - I can safely launch into a tirade against Brexit in any circumstance knowing that it's never going to be a contentious subject, because everyone will agree with me. My conclusion is that is just an issue that seems to be driven by age and outlook - my generation and social class has grown up in international world where patriotism seems quaint and national borders only matter so that sport is a bit more fun. And so withdrawing from an international construct because other people have funny accents and because we need to put the Great back into Great Britain just seems a bit embarrassing. That's the ideological level. On a practical level I like having money in my own pocket, and I'm fortunate enough that I can afford to care about other people having money in their pockets too. It took me a long time before I realised that for some people these ideas of sovereignty and control are more important than money in your pocket. Before that, I couldn't for the life of me understand why people voted to be poorer. I'm finding the exact opposite. I can fully see why you are getting this experience because it was largely the same where I used to live in Manchester. Although there were few tories they were staunch remainers. Everyone was remain. Liberal, Conservative and Labour. Nearly 2 years now living in North Wales and it's the exact opposite. Everyone wants out, Tory and Labour voters. The general feeling is they just want it delivered. I ask people. That's what they say. And they say lets Get on with it. It doesn't help with Tusk being so bullish with his comment but what else did we expect - it wasn't that bad and he offended only the people that he intended to. And that's none of us on here. |
|
|
|
Post by Palms Halt on Feb 8, 2019 8:05:04 GMT
Nearly 2 years now living in North Wales and it's the exact opposite. Everyone wants out, Tory and Labour voters. The general feeling is they just want it delivered. I ask people. That's what they say. And they say lets Get on with it. This is one of the main issues I have with the whole thing. The blatant disregard for the consequences of of delivering brexit without a plan. The "just get on with it" attitude of picking up our ball and storming off home while all our mates stand there laughing at the ludicrousness of the whole thing. The difference being, the kids are happy to all play together again the next day. We're kicking a ball against the wall on our own for the rest of our lives, telling anyone who'll listen that it's much more fun anyway. |
|
|
|
Post by Palms Halt on Feb 8, 2019 8:11:22 GMT
You also fail to realise how many young people have parents/grandparents or them themselves who come from another country. No one picks up on that in the news. 50% of London is probably like that and of course they are going to vote Brexit because they almost feel guilty not to, even though they have no idea what the EU even is. These people feel less British because they probably are in the sense that they have a large attachment to another country. Its not even a small per centage either. We're probably talking millions of votes here. You've edited this but it still makes no sense, and from the reaction of others, I'd say it's not just me. Don't post when drunk mate. |
|
FASH
Senior Member
Posts: 2,157
|
Post by FASH on Feb 8, 2019 9:04:21 GMT
There's no shame in voting for Brexit because you "don't like foreigners". A tribal mentality is a natural human instinct, it's how nations formed. Evidence for tribal behaviour mentality can be seen on at football grounds and this forum every matchday. We all feel it to some degree.
I suspect old people didn't vote for Brexit because they simply "don't like foreigners" but because they are starting to feel uncomfortable with a rapidly changing Britain and a vote to stay in the EU will ultimately finish with the end of European nation states. Whether you agree with them or not, 'diversity is our strength' so it's great to have a diversity of opinions, isn't it?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2019 10:01:34 GMT
There's no shame in voting for Brexit because you "don't like foreigners". A tribal mentality is a natural human instinct, it's how nations formed. Evidence for tribal behaviour mentality can be seen on at football grounds and this forum every matchday. We all feel it to some degree. I suspect old people didn't vote for Brexit because they simply "don't like foreigners" but because they are starting to feel uncomfortable with a rapidly changing Britain and a vote to stay in the EU will ultimately finish with the end of European nation states. Whether you agree with them or not, 'diversity is our strength' so it's great to have a diversity of opinions, isn't it? I acknowledge there's some truth in that but don't forget their parents were at war with Germany. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2019 10:10:39 GMT
I don't know whether others find this, but I find Brexit a far more 'bubbling' issue then traditional left v right politics. Within my social circles, friends, work colleagues, there's a range from dyed in the wool card carrying Tories all the way through to militant Corbynistas - and everything between the two as well. I've felt I've always been exposed to a range of political views. But I can't find anyone in my social circle who (at least admits to) voted for Brexit. I live in a complete echo chamber - I can safely launch into a tirade against Brexit in any circumstance knowing that it's never going to be a contentious subject, because everyone will agree with me. My conclusion is that is just an issue that seems to be driven by age and outlook - my generation and social class has grown up in international world where patriotism seems quaint and national borders only matter so that sport is a bit more fun. And so withdrawing from an international construct because other people have funny accents and because we need to put the Great back into Great Britain just seems a bit embarrassing. That's the ideological level. On a practical level I like having money in my own pocket, and I'm fortunate enough that I can afford to care about other people having money in their pockets too. It took me a long time before I realised that for some people these ideas of sovereignty and control are more important than money in your pocket. Before that, I couldn't for the life of me understand why people voted to be poorer. No one voted to be poorer, they voted for a better country and endless possibilities for the future. The sad thing in all this is how the EU is allowed to get away with murder on every level. People just brush off their dodgy dealings as nothing. I think most people who voted for Brexit feel vindicated in that we now see remainers coming out showing the arrogance they always have. You also fail to realise how many young people have parents/grandparents or them themselves who come from another country. No one picks up on that in the news. 50% of London is probably like that and of course they are going to vote Brexit because they almost feel guilty not to, even though they have no idea what the EU even is. These people feel less British because they probably are in the sense that they have a large attachment to another country. Its not even a small per centage either. We're probably talking millions of votes here. Utter nonsense. By voting Brexit, you have curtailed my freedom of movement and that of my children. How does that offer us endless possibilities? I am covered by your second paragraph however. I most certainly do not feel any less British at the moment, regardless of where my grandparents came from. My attachment to this country is being sorely tested by the way it is currently behaving on the international stage though. |
|
|
|
Post by changeabull on Feb 8, 2019 10:25:36 GMT
No one voted to be poorer, they voted for a better country and endless possibilities for the future. The sad thing in all this is how the EU is allowed to get away with murder on every level. People just brush off their dodgy dealings as nothing. I think most people who voted for Brexit feel vindicated in that we now see remainers coming out showing the arrogance they always have. You also fail to realise how many young people have parents/grandparents or them themselves who come from another country. No one picks up on that in the news. 50% of London is probably like that and of course they are going to vote Brexit because they almost feel guilty not to, even though they have no idea what the EU even is. These people feel less British because they probably are in the sense that they have a large attachment to another country. Its not even a small per centage either. We're probably talking millions of votes here. Utter nonsense. By voting Brexit, you have curtailed my freedom of movement and that of my children. How does that offer us endless possibilities? I am covered by your second paragraph however. I most certainly do not feel any less British at the moment, regardless of where my grandparents came from. My attachment to this country is being sorely tested by the way it is currently behaving on the international stage though. Freedom of movement only benefits those from the poorer countries of Eastern Europe. Hundreds of thousands of Poles, Rumanians, Croatians, etc have come to live and work in Britain and stretch our schools, hospitals and housing to breaking point. How many British people have gone the other way? |
|
|
|
Post by changeabull on Feb 8, 2019 10:31:00 GMT
Nearly 2 years now living in North Wales and it's the exact opposite. Everyone wants out, Tory and Labour voters. The general feeling is they just want it delivered. I ask people. That's what they say. And they say lets Get on with it. This is one of the main issues I have with the whole thing. The blatant disregard for the consequences of of delivering brexit without a plan. The "just get on with it" attitude of picking up our ball and storming off home while all our mates stand there laughing at the ludicrousness of the whole thing. The difference being, the kids are happy to all play together again the next day. We're kicking a ball against the wall on our own for the rest of our lives, telling anyone who'll listen that it's much more fun anyway. That's a rubbish metaphor. I'd say Brexit is more like Manchester United announced they're quitting the Premiership to join a World League. The other clubs may kick up a fuss and try to claim they can survive but deep down they know that without Man United, the Premiership's their finances, marketability and global reputation is seriously diminished. Man United, being a global brand and financial giant know that they are much bigger than the Premier League and, set free of its financial constraints and legal restrictions can do much better if it goes it alone. |
|
|
|
Post by Palms Halt on Feb 8, 2019 10:58:41 GMT
This is one of the main issues I have with the whole thing. The blatant disregard for the consequences of of delivering brexit without a plan. The "just get on with it" attitude of picking up our ball and storming off home while all our mates stand there laughing at the ludicrousness of the whole thing. The difference being, the kids are happy to all play together again the next day. We're kicking a ball against the wall on our own for the rest of our lives, telling anyone who'll listen that it's much more fun anyway. That's a rubbish metaphor. I'd say Brexit is more like Manchester United announced they're quitting the Premiership to join a World League. The other clubs may kick up a fuss and try to claim they can survive but deep down they know that without Man United, the Premiership's their finances, marketability and global reputation is seriously diminished. Man United, being a global brand and financial giant know that they are much bigger than the Premier League and, set free of its financial constraints and legal restrictions can do much better if it goes it alone. Nah, your metaphor is the complete opposite. |
|
|
|
Post by Palms Halt on Feb 8, 2019 11:03:26 GMT
Utter nonsense. By voting Brexit, you have curtailed my freedom of movement and that of my children. How does that offer us endless possibilities? I am covered by your second paragraph however. I most certainly do not feel any less British at the moment, regardless of where my grandparents came from. My attachment to this country is being sorely tested by the way it is currently behaving on the international stage though. Freedom of movement only benefits those from the poorer countries of Eastern Europe. Hundreds of thousands of Poles, Rumanians, Croatians, etc have come to live and work in Britain and stretch our schools, hospitals and housing to breaking point. How many British people have gone the other way? Around 900,000 apparently fullfact.org/europe/how-many-uk-citizens-live-other-eu-countries/ Their status in these countries will hopefully be protected, but who knows? There's every chance they might have to come back, and I imagine you'll lose your freedom to choose to spend your retirement turning into a prune on the Costa Del Sol |
|
|
|
Post by Palms Halt on Feb 8, 2019 11:14:36 GMT
When people talk of foreigners being a drain on resources, they totally ignore that these young and healthy people working long hours are paying way more in national insurance and tax than they ever take out in benefits and healthcare. Yet, if the mahogany retirees return from Spain and the Algarve because they're no longer entitled to free healthcare there, where's the money coming from to care for them when they're back here?
You can argue that they paid enough when they were working here, before they sold up to live off the profits of our booming house prices and enjoy some sunshine (nothing wrong with that), but the money they paid when they were working has gone. The workers of today will have to pay for their care, and that money will have to be spread far more thinly than it is now
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2019 11:19:41 GMT
No one voted to be poorer, they voted for a better country and endless possibilities for the future. The sad thing in all this is how the EU is allowed to get away with murder on every level. People just brush off their dodgy dealings as nothing. I think most people who voted for Brexit feel vindicated in that we now see remainers coming out showing the arrogance they always have. You also fail to realise how many young people have parents/grandparents or them themselves who come from another country. No one picks up on that in the news. 50% of London is probably like that and of course they are going to vote Brexit because they almost feel guilty not to, even though they have no idea what the EU even is. These people feel less British because they probably are in the sense that they have a large attachment to another country. Its not even a small per centage either. We're probably talking millions of votes here. Utter nonsense. By voting Brexit, you have curtailed my freedom of movement and that of my children. How does that offer us endless possibilities? I am covered by your second paragraph however. I most certainly do not feel any less British at the moment, regardless of where my grandparents came from. My attachment to this country is being sorely tested by the way it is currently behaving on the international stage though. It saddens me johnny to see you write something so laughably wrong. I honestly thought you had a bit more about you than that. There is absolutely no reason why you or your children wont be able to go abroad on holidays or getting into a foreign jobs market. I've done it myself on 2 occasions and neither of them were inside the EU. Sure there's a bit of paperwork to fill out but if that's what you really want and you have the ability then there's no reason why you can't make it so. Freedom of movement does not mean an end to immigration in and out of this country. If I can do it twice then I'm sure your kids are more than capable of doing the same. |
|
|
|
Post by Palms Halt on Feb 8, 2019 11:23:24 GMT
Utter nonsense. By voting Brexit, you have curtailed my freedom of movement and that of my children. How does that offer us endless possibilities? I am covered by your second paragraph however. I most certainly do not feel any less British at the moment, regardless of where my grandparents came from. My attachment to this country is being sorely tested by the way it is currently behaving on the international stage though. It saddens me johnny to see you write something so laughably wrong. I honestly thought you had a bit more about you than that. There is absolutely no reason why you or your children wont be able to go abroad on holidays or getting into a foreign jobs market. I've done it myself on 2 occasions and neither of them were inside the EU. Sure there's a bit of paperwork to fill out but if that's what you really want and you have the ability then there's no reason why you can't make it so. Freedom of movement does not mean an end to immigration in and out of this country. If I can do it twice then I'm sure your kids are more than capable of doing the same. Yeah, that never happened. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2019 11:26:19 GMT
It saddens me johnny to see you write something so laughably wrong. I honestly thought you had a bit more about you than that. There is absolutely no reason why you or your children wont be able to go abroad on holidays or getting into a foreign jobs market. I've done it myself on 2 occasions and neither of them were inside the EU. Sure there's a bit of paperwork to fill out but if that's what you really want and you have the ability then there's no reason why you can't make it so. Freedom of movement does not mean an end to immigration in and out of this country. If I can do it twice then I'm sure your kids are more than capable of doing the same. Yeah, that never happened. I love it how people are now resorting to this kind of crap in response to my posts. 2 abusive PMs in the past 24hrs as well. Keep em coming. |
|
|
|
Post by Palms Halt on Feb 8, 2019 11:36:47 GMT
Yeah, that never happened. I love it how people are now resorting to this kind of crap in response to my posts. 2 abusive PMs in the past 24hrs as well. Keep em coming. If you've had PMs from somebody, don't pin it on me sunshine. You've had none from me since I replied to the shite you used to PM me on Bulls Banter many years ago. |
|
