arry
Junior Member
Posts: 185
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Post by arry on Jun 7, 2016 14:58:46 GMT
So if we don't like whoever's in power, we can just vote for someone else in the next general election. Can't do that when we're in the EU superstate - so if there's something or someone you don't like then, what're you gonna do about it ? Write to the President of the European Parliament, or the President of the Council of the European Union or the President of the European Council or the President of the EU Commission ? Which one does what, and which one would you complain to, cos you can't vote them out, even if you had a clue who they were. Hi arry, A couple of minutes on line will find you the answer to your last question. Two out of those three bodies you do vote for - one directly and one indirectly, and the other one the government of the day nominates our member of it. As for UK general elections, most people don't get to vote to change the government - my MP has a majority of over 20,000 and when I lived elsewhere, my MP of a different party had a similar majority. It's only if you live in Scotland, Wales or NI does your vote count for much for their assembly/parliament. "most people don't get to vote to change the government" - I think you'll find they do. There have been what, 5 changes of government since we entered the Common Market ? MP's with significant majorities have lost their seats in the past - Michael Portaloo and Ed Balls to name 2. Anyway, my point is, whether or not you feel your vote is worth nothing or a great deal, at least we have a vote and we pretty much know who and what we're voting for. We see and hear our politicians on the news every day. But if only 1 of the 3 bodies you refer to above can be directly voted for - big deal ! How often and do the votes of the other 27 EU countries also count ? It'll be like the Eurovision song contest (perish the thought) for "politicans" - what a prospect. Most of the ""IN" brigade couldn't name any of the 5 EU presidents let alone a single EU minister, or have the faintest clue what each of the 7 EU organisations actually does with our money all day (apart from wasting quite a bit of it lining their own pockets and setting up endless EU steering committees, focus groups, think tanks, policy commissionzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz 5 years down the line when you can't drive a car faster than 30mph (sorry 40 kph) cos the EU deem it too dangerous, or rule that there's to be no standing at football matches in case you get back ache, there'll be sod-all you can do about it.
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Post by colebridgebull on Jun 7, 2016 15:39:40 GMT
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Post by excitable on Jun 7, 2016 15:42:20 GMT
LSE hothead centre for the Looney left for several generations.
Must mean that the answer is leave
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Post by colebridgebull on Jun 7, 2016 15:50:05 GMT
You've never read it that quickly.
Unless there's a team of you...
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Post by excitable on Jun 7, 2016 15:59:29 GMT
Untrustworthy source as you would say of the Mail.
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Post by eggchaserbull on Jun 7, 2016 16:52:43 GMT
Hi arry, A couple of minutes on line will find you the answer to your last question. Two out of those three bodies you do vote for - one directly and one indirectly, and the other one the government of the day nominates our member of it. As for UK general elections, most people don't get to vote to change the government - my MP has a majority of over 20,000 and when I lived elsewhere, my MP of a different party had a similar majority. It's only if you live in Scotland, Wales or NI does your vote count for much for their assembly/parliament. "most people don't get to vote to change the government" - I think you'll find they do. There have been what, 5 changes of government since we entered the Common Market ? MP's with significant majorities have lost their seats in the past - Michael Portaloo and Ed Balls to name 2. Anyway, my point is, whether or not you feel your vote is worth nothing or a great deal, at least we have a vote and we pretty much know who and what we're voting for. We see and hear our politicians on the news every day. But if only 1 of the 3 bodies you refer to above can be directly voted for - big deal ! How often and do the votes of the other 27 EU countries also count ? It'll be like the Eurovision song contest (perish the thought) for "politicans" - what a prospect. Most of the ""IN" brigade couldn't name any of the 5 EU presidents let alone a single EU minister, or have the faintest clue what each of the 7 EU organisations actually does with our money all day (apart from wasting quite a bit of it lining their own pockets and setting up endless EU steering committees, focus groups, think tanks, policy commissionzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz 5 years down the line when you can't drive a car faster than 30mph (sorry 40 kph) cos the EU deem it too dangerous, or rule that there's to be no standing at football matches in case you get back ache, there'll be sod-all you can do about it. OMG! Is this correct? The other EU countries also get a vote in the European elections. I was well and truly in the Remain camp, until you pointed out this equitable situation.
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Post by excitable on Jun 7, 2016 16:58:15 GMT
"most people don't get to vote to change the government" - I think you'll find they do. There have been what, 5 changes of government since we entered the Common Market ? MP's with significant majorities have lost their seats in the past - Michael Portaloo and Ed Balls to name 2. Anyway, my point is, whether or not you feel your vote is worth nothing or a great deal, at least we have a vote and we pretty much know who and what we're voting for. We see and hear our politicians on the news every day. But if only 1 of the 3 bodies you refer to above can be directly voted for - big deal ! How often and do the votes of the other 27 EU countries also count ? It'll be like the Eurovision song contest (perish the thought) for "politicans" - what a prospect. Most of the ""IN" brigade couldn't name any of the 5 EU presidents let alone a single EU minister, or have the faintest clue what each of the 7 EU organisations actually does with our money all day (apart from wasting quite a bit of it lining their own pockets and setting up endless EU steering committees, focus groups, think tanks, policy commissionzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz 5 years down the line when you can't drive a car faster than 30mph (sorry 40 kph) cos the EU deem it too dangerous, or rule that there's to be no standing at football matches in case you get back ache, there'll be sod-all you can do about it. OMG! Is this correct? The other EU countries also get a vote in the European elections. I was well and truly in the Remain camp, until you pointed out this equitable situation. Getting 28 countries to agree to anything would stand as much chance as getting all the horses in the Household Cavalry to sh1t simultaneously.
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Skomer
Junior Member
Posts: 442
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Post by Skomer on Jun 7, 2016 17:14:14 GMT
Hi arry,
You didn't like my post of "most people don't get to vote to change the government". At the last general election 111 seats changed parties - but 56 were in Scotland when Labour was wiped out and many of the rest were Lib Dems. So around 90% of those who voted in England in 2015 got the same result as in 2010 and probably will get the same result next time. So my point was that it is only if you live in marginals that your vote might change the government (except, maybe a couple of times a century). By the way, Ed Ball's majority was 1,121 in 2010, so marginal. Portillo was a rare defeat of an incumbent with a reasonable majority - which is why is is so memorable; it doesn't happen very often.
As for your point about no-one knowing their MEP or other EU officials, I'm not sure that ignorance/disinterest is justification for voting either way.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2016 17:14:36 GMT
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Skomer
Junior Member
Posts: 442
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Post by Skomer on Jun 7, 2016 17:17:33 GMT
OMG! Is this correct? The other EU countries also get a vote in the European elections. I was well and truly in the Remain camp, until you pointed out this equitable situation. Getting 28 countries to agree to anything would stand as much chance as getting all the horses in the Household Cavalry to sh1t simultaneously. I agree excitable. Which is why if we leave and have to negotiate any sort of trade deal with the EU, it won't be as easy as Gove and Johnson say it will be. I have no great love of the EU, just a big worry we will be in a bit (lot?) of a mess if we leave.
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Post by castlebull on Jun 7, 2016 17:23:49 GMT
Essentially! Whilst we should have some power in voting in/out our politicians this is frankly a token gesture more often than not, choosing between Rupert Murdoch's mate or some other Eton chap, with each of them basically making the same decisions based upon personal financial gain (either directly or indirectly) rather than any regard for the country or it's citizens. Having some outsiders involved has to make this more difficult? Isn't the influence of Murdoch et al (which is significant and has been for some time) a strong argument for remaining in. Much of the oversight of EU has reined in some of the excesses of the U.K. Govt brought about by trying to keep the Daily Mail happy. There's a quote dong the rounds attributed to Murdoch in which he bemoans the EU Parl as it doesn't listen to him. The thought of losing that oversight is frightening. That is my point - I just rambled excessively to make it (or not make it as the case may be!) Anything which nullifies the Murdoch (et al) effect is a good thing. Ergo I'm leaning towards in.
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Post by excitable on Jun 7, 2016 17:43:49 GMT
Please note the EU debate on a European army has been potponed until 24th June.
Surprise surprise.
Leave no brainer
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arry
Junior Member
Posts: 185
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Post by arry on Jun 7, 2016 18:31:23 GMT
"most people don't get to vote to change the government" - I think you'll find they do. There have been what, 5 changes of government since we entered the Common Market ? MP's with significant majorities have lost their seats in the past - Michael Portaloo and Ed Balls to name 2. Anyway, my point is, whether or not you feel your vote is worth nothing or a great deal, at least we have a vote and we pretty much know who and what we're voting for. We see and hear our politicians on the news every day. But if only 1 of the 3 bodies you refer to above can be directly voted for - big deal ! How often and do the votes of the other 27 EU countries also count ? It'll be like the Eurovision song contest (perish the thought) for "politicans" - what a prospect. Most of the ""IN" brigade couldn't name any of the 5 EU presidents let alone a single EU minister, or have the faintest clue what each of the 7 EU organisations actually does with our money all day (apart from wasting quite a bit of it lining their own pockets and setting up endless EU steering committees, focus groups, think tanks, policy commissionzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz 5 years down the line when you can't drive a car faster than 30mph (sorry 40 kph) cos the EU deem it too dangerous, or rule that there's to be no standing at football matches in case you get back ache, there'll be sod-all you can do about it. OMG! Is this correct? The other EU countries also get a vote in the European elections. I was well and truly in the Remain camp, until you pointed out this equitable situation. For the record it was tongue in cheek, hence reference to the Eurovision song contest, but the point is, our "vote" being watered down by 27 other countries makes EU voting a pointless exercise
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2016 18:36:08 GMT
I know less about this than the recent Police Commissioner elections. I noticed the polling cards the other day on our "sad board" where all crap like that seems to go to die. Did anyone on here vote on that? I don't think anyone tried to tempt me in to voting for them.
Batman had a Police Commissioner in it didn't it?
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Post by Monkey Tennis on Jun 7, 2016 18:50:55 GMT
I know less about this than the recent Police Commissioner elections. I noticed the polling cards the other day on our " sad board" where all crap like that seems to go to die. Did anyone on here vote on that? I don't think anyone tried to tempt me in to voting for them. Batman had a Police Commissioner in it didn't it? Could be a new name for the Magic Roundabout. Shall we have a referendererum?
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Post by sillymeadows on Jun 7, 2016 18:51:45 GMT
I am voting leave just to see what will happen, no one can say what will happen, f#%k#ng Experts , never wrong are they? It will be fun to see what happens
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2016 19:00:40 GMT
Haha. That is the best and most honest argument for voting Leave I have seen yet.
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Post by captainhazza on Jun 7, 2016 19:10:00 GMT
I once asked Rupert Murdoch why he was so opposed to the European Union. 'That’s easy,' he replied. 'When I go into Downing Street they do what I say; when I go to Brussels they take no notice.' Anthony Hilton.
This is the quote doing the rounds.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2016 19:12:11 GMT
I am voting leave just to see what will happen, no one can say what will happen, f#%k#ng Experts , never wrong are they? It will be fun to see what happens Haha, i'm in, I mean out.
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Post by Gulliver on Jun 7, 2016 19:15:36 GMT
No thanks! As you said earlier, "I can make up my own mind".
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