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Post by gefod on Jul 24, 2019 21:34:45 GMT
Great first speech from Boris. A kick in the nuts for the gloomy, unpatriotic, sanctimonious soggy wet flange flannels of this great nation. MBGA! Why bring trousers into the debate.
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Post by lazarus on Jul 24, 2019 21:38:07 GMT
For the seat of Government
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2019 6:42:29 GMT
62.9% of the nation were perfectly happy with their lot. It's the economy, stupid. You can't include in your figures those too apathetic or stupid to exercise their right to vote. Too many people ignore the fact that the referendum was more likely to attract voters to go out and try to change something. Ipso Facto, it is flawed. MPs voted 3 to 1 to Remain. They know more than the (increasingly dumb) electorate of this country.
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Post by lazarus on Jul 25, 2019 7:32:19 GMT
You have more faith in MPs than most people and my point still stands that those so desperate to remain were apathetic.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2019 7:52:31 GMT
You have more faith in MPs than most people and my point still stands that those so desperate to remain were apathetic. Not sure how you work that out when they put them there in the first place? They then, on average, ignored their advice concerning Europe. The word "desperate" is surely more applicable to a person who wishes to change something?
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Post by Palms Halt on Jul 25, 2019 8:07:50 GMT
Other opinions are available thank goodness but rarely on this forum without being shouted down by those that LOST the vote in 2016. I believe Boris speaks highly of you too.😆 Lost? Have you got what you voted for yet? It appears not, and you never will completely. There are no winners in this. We all lost when Cameron announced the referendum to win a power struggle.
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Post by lazarus on Jul 25, 2019 8:28:22 GMT
Not yet but hope for leave on WTO terms and trading with Europe who need our business and goods just as much as we need theirs. Just look at the European brand caqrs on our roads and the Eastern European lorries filling our Motorways.
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Post by Palms Halt on Jul 25, 2019 8:48:19 GMT
Not yet but hope for leave on WTO terms and trading with Europe who need our business and goods just as much as we need theirs. Just look at the European brand caqrs on our roads and the Eastern European lorries filling our Motorways. WTO terms would be disastrous for us. Thankfully, it wouldn't be good for the EU either, so if we are going to go through with this insane thing that about 30% of the country want, then we do need to call their bluff by at least appearing to be prepared to go through with it.
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Post by singe on Jul 25, 2019 9:43:49 GMT
You can't include in your figures those too apathetic or stupid to exercise their right to vote. Too many people ignore the fact that the referendum was more likely to attract voters to go out and try to change something. Ipso Facto, it is flawed. Indeed, and this has been pointed out but ignored by the bigots on the Leave side who consistently never let the truth get in the way of a good story.
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Post by singe on Jul 25, 2019 9:48:14 GMT
Patel is a predictable sop. She was found out on Question Time with her farce of an argument for capital punishment.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2019 9:59:38 GMT
Patel is a predictable sop. She was found out on Question Time with her farce of an argument for capital punishment. In which case it might come in useful.
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Post by timmeee on Jul 25, 2019 11:40:07 GMT
Too many people ignore the fact that the referendum was more likely to attract voters to go out and try to change something. Ipso Facto, it is flawed. But that’s irrelevant as that is the way referendums work, and always have done. And people knew that going into the referendum. There were basically 3 types of people: Those that wanted to leave and voted to leave Those that wanted to remain and voted to remain Those that weren’t that bothered either way and so didn’t bother voting. If someone REALLY wanted us to remain in the EU, they would have gone out and voted as such. I know of only one person who has admitted to me they didn’t vote and her exact words when I asked her why not were: ‘because I just don’t care either way’.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2019 12:01:43 GMT
Too many people ignore the fact that the referendum was more likely to attract voters to go out and try to change something. Ipso Facto, it is flawed. But that’s irrelevant as that is the way referendums work, and always have done. And people knew that going into the referendum. There were basically 3 types of people: Those that wanted to leave and voted to leave Those that wanted to remain and voted to remain Those that weren’t that bothered either way and so didn’t bother voting. If someone REALLY wanted us to remain in the EU, they would have gone out and voted as such. I know of only one person who has admitted to me they didn’t vote and her exact words when I asked her why not were: ‘because I just don’t care either way’. More importantly, was she wearing trousers? If so, what type? That is a pressing issue.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2019 12:24:36 GMT
Too many people ignore the fact that the referendum was more likely to attract voters to go out and try to change something. Ipso Facto, it is flawed. But that’s irrelevant as that is the way referendums work, and always have done. And people knew that going into the referendum. There were basically 3 types of people: Those that wanted to leave and voted to leave Those that wanted to remain and voted to remain Those that weren’t that bothered either way and so didn’t bother voting. If someone REALLY wanted us to remain in the EU, they would have gone out and voted as such. I know of only one person who has admitted to me they didn’t vote and her exact words when I asked her why not were: ‘because I just don’t care either way’. Then you don't hold referenda.
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Post by timmeee on Jul 25, 2019 12:55:24 GMT
More importantly, was she wearing trousers? If so, what type? That is a pressing issue. She wasn’t wearing anything as it happens.
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Post by changeabull on Jul 25, 2019 13:00:05 GMT
But that’s irrelevant as that is the way referendums work, and always have done. And people knew that going into the referendum. There were basically 3 types of people: Those that wanted to leave and voted to leave Those that wanted to remain and voted to remain Those that weren’t that bothered either way and so didn’t bother voting. If someone REALLY wanted us to remain in the EU, they would have gone out and voted as such. I know of only one person who has admitted to me they didn’t vote and her exact words when I asked her why not were: ‘because I just don’t care either way’. Then you don't hold referenda. By that argument you shouldn't hold any form of democratic election as clearly you reckon the vast majority of the population are too stupid to vote.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2019 13:13:30 GMT
Then you don't hold referenda. By that argument you shouldn't hold any form of democratic election as clearly you reckon the vast majority of the population are too stupid to vote. No. Startlingly incorrect. The people elected Members of parliament. Those Members of Parliament then "parleyed" - hence the name. There were more Remainers in Parliament than Leavers in Parliament by a ratio of 3:1. So they proceed accordingly. With a referendum you invest the decision with the elector. There is no buffer between that elector and the outcome. Therefore the elector will run the risk of doing something contrary to the advice of the person he has elected. In point of fact, of those who voted, it was 48% Remain and 52% Leave. (Not a convincing enough margin to change the crib captain, let lone sell the country down the river for the rest of time.) The impasse has existed precisely because of the dichotomy between Member of Parliament and the person who elected him. There's no fee.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2019 13:26:06 GMT
So, the democracy existed by electing MPs who formed a government. The (majority) government (at the time) foolishly held a referendum. They advised Remain. They were ignored by 37.1% of the democracy who put them there.
Whose fault is it?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2019 13:31:35 GMT
Too many people ignore the fact that the referendum was more likely to attract voters to go out and try to change something. Ipso Facto, it is flawed. Indeed, and this has been pointed out but ignored by the bigots on the Leave side who consistently never let the truth get in the way of a good story. Singe you always come across really poorly on this forum which is a shame because you can have some sensible discussion when you try. I don't agree at all that the referendum was likely to attract more people who wanted change. A lot of people I know were very hostile towards the EU but were still happy to keep the status quo given how many scare stories we heard about the world coming to an end in the event of a leave victory. Why would anyone vote to leave unless they were unhappy about it. We keep hearing this laughable suggestions about remainers being intelligent university professors and leavers being bin men but the truth is that people would vote on how the genuinely felt about the issue. I think you'd be surprised how many people voted remain at the last minute despite having significant concerns about us being in the EU.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2019 13:39:38 GMT
Indeed, and this has been pointed out but ignored by the bigots on the Leave side who consistently never let the truth get in the way of a good story. Singe you always come across really poorly on this forum which is a shame because you can have some sensible discussion when you try. I don't agree at all that the referendum was likely to attract more people who wanted change. A lot of people I know were very hostile towards the EU but were still happy to keep the status quo given how many scare stories we heard about the world coming to an end in the event of a leave victory. Why would anyone vote to leave unless they were unhappy about it. We keep hearing this laughable suggestions about remainers being intelligent university professors and leavers being bin men but the truth is that people would vote on how the genuinely felt about the issue. I think you'd be surprised how many people voted remain at the last minute despite having significant concerns about us being in the EU. I note you avoid debate with myself as usual. Nowithstanding that, you would do well to concentrate on the racist factor among the elderly rather than the notion that they would have any grasp whatsoever of current affairs.
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