The true cost of BREXIT

[Gresty]

Sept 3, 2019 21:59:44 GMT colebridgebull said:

Sept 3, 2019 21:48:31 GMT timmeee said:

Tonight’s vote in the commons has all but guaranteed a no deal Brexit on 31st October.

How so? 

Quite the opposite, but I’m all ears to alternative views. 

(Won’t happen but I may have said that before...)

Well you have been proven right thus far.

Squeaky bum time now.

For all concerned, politicians, Speaker of the House, even the elecorate/proletariat.

😎

[PAD]

Vote of no confidence. Ken Clarke to lead a single issue, 6 month, unity government. Get a soft Brexit done then a general election.

The numbers are there for it if there is a will to do the best for the country....from the position we are in.

(Should have taken May's deal as it was as good a deal Brexiteers were ever going to get without setting the economy back to 2008/9)

[singe]

Sept 3, 2019 22:48:55 GMT PAD said:

Vote of no confidence. Ken Clarke to lead a single issue, 6 month, unity government. Get a soft Brexit done then a general election.

The numbers are there for it if there is a will to do the best for the country....from the position we are in.

(Should have taken May's deal as it was as good a deal Brexiteers were ever going to get without setting the economy back to 2008/9)

Not sure there's a will for a soft Brexit yet, the ERG would never vote for it and they number nearly 100. Interesting times, booked 15th October off work here just in case.

[Deleted]

There was a fascinating fact on the radio last week (so a Brexit lifetime ago). They had a lady on that is doing a PhD on Brexit. I think focusing on all of the spin off stats since. She stated that if you recounted the votes today of all the people that voted in June 2016 but only counted the votes of those still alive, the outcome would be Remain.

How sh!t is that? Why are we doing this to ourselves?

[Gresty]

Sept 4, 2019 6:00:55 GMT @whitelightening said:

There was a fascinating fact on the radio last week (so a Brexit lifetime ago). They had a lady on that is doing a PhD on Brexit. I think focusing on all of the spin off stats since. She stated that if you recounted the votes today of all the people that voted in June 2016 but only counted the votes of those still alive, the outcome would be Remain.

How sh!t is that? Why are we doing this to ourselves?

Ha.

I voted leave.

And I'm still alive. Just.

I would now vote remain if given the opportunity.

Does that prove the point?

No idea why we're doing this to ourselves. Is it not true that a nation gets the government it deserves?

[Barney still in B-Block]

Sept 4, 2019 7:42:32 GMT Gresty said:

Sept 4, 2019 6:00:55 GMT @whitelightening said:

There was a fascinating fact on the radio last week (so a Brexit lifetime ago). They had a lady on that is doing a PhD on Brexit. I think focusing on all of the spin off stats since. She stated that if you recounted the votes today of all the people that voted in June 2016 but only counted the votes of those still alive, the outcome would be Remain.

How sh!t is that? Why are we doing this to ourselves?

Ha.

I voted leave.

And I'm still alive. Just.

I would now vote remain if given the opportunity.

Does that prove the point?

No idea why we're doing this to ourselves. Is it not true that a nation gets the government it deserves?

I know many people who have said the same, including members of the extended family. 

Haven't met a single person saying the opposite. 

It's true to say that we get the press we deserve, as well as the government. Perhaps the two are related. Just saying. 

[eggchaserbull]

Sept 3, 2019 22:28:37 GMT timmeee said:

Sept 3, 2019 21:59:44 GMT colebridgebull said:

How so? 

Quite the opposite, but I’m all ears to alternative views. 

(Won’t happen but I may have said that before...)

I see the following scenario playing out:

A general election is called.
Boris is successful in his attempt at deselecting rebel MP’s and the Tories have only pro Brexit candidates standing.
Nigel Farage agrees that the Brexit Party will not put any candidates up for election.
Jeremy Corbyn is stuck trying to convince people who voted to remain to vote Labour whilst trying not to lose people who would traditionally vote Labour but also voted to leave. With the Brexit party not running, Boris’s Conservatives may look like a tempting option for the latter.
Traditional conservative voters have no where else to go so the majority stick with voting Conservative, with a small loss to the Lib Dem’s.
The conservatives win a majority with these MP’s being pro Brexit.
Legislation is passed almost immediately reversing any extension to the 31st October date and this we leave on that day.

Of course it may play out totally differently (I have also known to be wrong!).

Boris is a far more intelligent man than he puts across. I would not underestimate him for a second to pull it out of the bag. His career ambition has been to get into number 10 and he’s been there a month. He’s going to fight tooth and nail to stay.

Also, Timmy O’Toole is elected as MP for Hereford and South Herefordshire and becomes the new Foreign Secretary. (I’m not 100% on this but I’ve been away for a few days and don’t want people to think I’m out of the loop with the Timmy O’Toole talk. Which I am. But keep that to yourself).

This seems to assume that Nigel Farage is in politics for altruistic reasons, rather than self-serving.

He's made a profitable career out of campaigning for the UK to leave the EU.

Why would he want it to happen and derail the gravy train?

[changeabull]

Bored of the whole thing now. Why don't we just leave, see how it works out then if it doesn't, have another referendum in 5 years' time to rejoin?

When we have a general election the losing party accepts it and moves on, it doesn't spend the next three years trying to overturn the result. Why should the EU referendum prove any different?

[singe]

Sept 4, 2019 10:03:34 GMT changeabull said:

Bored of the whole thing now. Why don't we just leave, see how it works out then if it doesn't, have another referendum in 5 years' time to rejoin?

When we have a general election the losing party accepts it and moves on, it doesn't spend the next three years trying to overturn the result. Why should the EU referendum prove any different?

Maybe because it was a corrupt referendum? Maybe because so many porkies were told, predominantly by one side? Maybe because of the funding issues related to said side?

[MAXBULL]

I voted remain i would now vote leave just to uphold true democracy.
Parliament is rotten from top to bottom!

[Gresty]

This thread is a microcosm of the national Brexit debate.

So many different views, so many variations within each view and not one suggested solution that could possibly please (or appease) everyone.

What a bloody mess!

[singe]

Sept 4, 2019 10:12:58 GMT MAXBULL said:

I voted remain i would now vote leave just to uphold true democracy.
Parliament is rotten from top to bottom!

Predictable.

[changeabull]

Sept 4, 2019 10:11:45 GMT singe said:

Sept 4, 2019 10:03:34 GMT changeabull said:

Bored of the whole thing now. Why don't we just leave, see how it works out then if it doesn't, have another referendum in 5 years' time to rejoin?

When we have a general election the losing party accepts it and moves on, it doesn't spend the next three years trying to overturn the result. Why should the EU referendum prove any different?

Maybe because it was a corrupt referendum? Maybe because so many porkies were told, predominantly by one side? Maybe because of the funding issues related to said side?

I don't know how elections work in your part of the world but over here everyone knows both sides tell lies and make promises they can't keep and the voters simply decide which lies and promises will be least harmful. To suggest that the EU referendum was any more corrupt or dishonest than any other public vote is naive in the extreme.

[changeabull]

Sept 4, 2019 10:27:12 GMT Gresty said:

This thread is a microcosm of the national Brexit debate.

So many different views, so many variations within each view and not one suggested solution that could possibly please (or appease) everyone.

What a bloody mess!

I've just suggested it.

Sept 4, 2019 10:03:34 GMT changeabull said:

Why don't we just leave, see how it works out then if it doesn't, have another referendum in 5 years' time to rejoin?

The leavers get their wish to leave, the remainers get their wish for a second referendum and we at least get to give being outside the EU a go rather than relying on speculation on what might happen but leave the door open for if we change our minds.

[Palms Halt]

Sept 4, 2019 10:03:34 GMT changeabull said:

Bored of the whole thing now. Why don't we just leave, see how it works out then if it doesn't, have another referendum in 5 years' time to rejoin?

When we have a general election the losing party accepts it and moves on, it doesn't spend the next three years trying to overturn the result. Why should the EU referendum prove any different?

Because we'll never get more favourable terms than we currently have. 

How many bloody rebates do you think we'll get if we go crawling back to the EU, and who's to say they'll accept us back in after all the upheaval we've caused them anyway? It's arrogance in the extreme to believe that we can just swan back in as though nothing's happened in 5 years time.

[singe]

Sept 4, 2019 10:59:51 GMT changeabull said:

Sept 4, 2019 10:11:45 GMT singe said:

Maybe because it was a corrupt referendum? Maybe because so many porkies were told, predominantly by one side? Maybe because of the funding issues related to said side?

I don't know how elections work in your part of the world but over here everyone knows both sides tell lies and make promises they can't keep and the voters simply decide which lies and promises will be least harmful. To suggest that the EU referendum was any more corrupt or dishonest than any other public vote is naive in the extreme.

Nope, don't accept that. The amount of dosh saved yup by the Leave campaign from dodgy origins was far more than the Remain campaign - there's was the only campaign resulting in successful litigation. The whole Facebook, Cambridge Analytica saga/fiasco. To suggest that the EU referendum wasn't any more corrupt or dishonest than any other public vote is naive in the extreme.

[sisyphus]

It won’t matter in the long term, Europe is on the verge of collapse anyway.

[sevenoaksbull]

There are some very odd views being expressed on this thread, clearly conspiracy theories abound on all sides.....

The issue of Europe has been a running sore in this country for years, within both major parties. The likes of Bill Cash on the Conservative side and Jeremy Corbyn on Labour opposed membership for differing but to them compelling reasons. Like the vast majority of the country, I just ignored the noise and reckoned that being in the EU was overall to the benefit of this country. Problem for the Tories was that the likes of Cash wouldn’t shut up, whilst Corbyn was just laughed at by the likes of Blair and Brown. So we get to 2015 and the effect of the coalition on the Tories. The idiot Cameron with his duplicitous side kick Osborne thought they could buy off the noisy cabal led by Cash with the promise of a referendum, a simple choice, in or out, and it would enacted. No mention of the inevitable Treaty obligations that would need to be renegotiated.

Well it worked, Cameron got his majority and the Euro sceptics were turbocharged. The referendum was announced and the most divisive and duplicitous campaigns were launched, each side making cheap shots at the other, no coherent argument for or against membership made. And to the great surprise of the commentariat and twitter followers, a sizeable majority voted out. A result neither side had expected and so had made no plans for. So then the arguments and infighting start and we end up where we are now; the Governance of this country hijacked by one issue whilst the country screams out for improvements in health, social care, housing and education. i.e. things which impact on the day to day lives of ordinary people. Its an utter shambles and all sides need to seriously take a look at themselves.

The simple facts are more people voted out than remain, so it was beholden on the Government to do what was necessary to deliver that. Problem is, as Colebridgebull (with whom I have to say I share no political sympathies) frequently put it, it is actually quite complex and time consuming to unwind treaties. That said, the EU is teetering in any event. Germany is about to tip into recession and the rest of membership will surely follow. So maybe the whole thing will just fall over fairly soon anyway, whether we are in or out. If that happens, the current shenanigans will look like a children’s tea party.

[timmeee]

Sept 4, 2019 12:22:05 GMT sisyphus said:

It won’t matter in the long term, Europe is on the verge of collapse anyway.

This is the sole reason I voted to leave. The EU has been doomed to fail from the start.

It is the titanic and I believe it’s hit the iceberg. We’re simply jumping into the first life raft.

[timmeee]

Sept 4, 2019 6:00:55 GMT @whitelightening said:

There was a fascinating fact on the radio last week (so a Brexit lifetime ago). They had a lady on that is doing a PhD on Brexit. I think focusing on all of the spin off stats since. She stated that if you recounted the votes today of all the people that voted in June 2016 but only counted the votes of those still alive, the outcome would be Remain.

How sh!t is that? Why are we doing this to ourselves?

Sorry but that is absolute bull for the following 2 reasons:
1. Nobody wrote their name on their voting slip so it is literally impossible to tell.
2. 1.27 million more people voted to leave than to remain. In 2016 525,000 people died, in 2017 533,000 and 2018 541,000 which is a total of 1.6 million deaths over 3 years. Voter turnout was 72% (which even if you assume that all would have been eligible to vote which they weren’t as many who died would have been under 18 or a not a British National) so therefore 1.15million of those who died would have voted. Not enough to turn over the result, even if you assume that all those who died voted to leave, which they didn’t.