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Post by lazarus on Mar 13, 2019 22:26:59 GMT
Erm...no. That's a ridiculous analogy. Other opinions are available despite the usual ridicule from the left of the spectrum |
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Post by Barney still in B-Block on Mar 13, 2019 22:51:38 GMT
Could someone please explain how this woman can continue leading our country, given the rank hypocrisy of her position on repeatedly bringing back, because she doesn't like the answer, the same question to parliament when nothing has materially changed, yet flat out denying the people another chance to vote on something where there has been massive material change?
Especially given that her defeats have been unprecedentedly seismic, and the one of the people very, very slender?
Thank God there are enough MP's who've found a backbone, and put country before party, I just hope they don't lose their nerve now.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2019 22:55:35 GMT
The traditional left and right are disappearing.
I'm finding myself agreeing on views of both regarding Brexit.
Although, sadly, I'm also finding that at work people are still more pressed by netflix, step count/the fecking gym, holidays and what they have pre-prepared for tea. General engagement in this as a discussion topic is virtually non-existent.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2019 23:03:02 GMT
You would hope, on an individual candidate level rather than party lines. With some honesty (pfft, i know) about what the backed outcome was likely to mean to the voter. Not sure I understand. You mean almost as if parties allow their candidates a 'free vote' on Brexit within their manifesto, so we'd effectively have 650 mini-referendums on Brexit. And then take the temperature from that? Sounds tricky if so. I think we only make progress here if we can somehow remove the numbers of options available. Not allow more to proliferate. It also requires MPs to not actually be self-serving as well. While I'm not one of the 'sack em all, useless wallys, noses in the troughs' types, there's an element of inevitable human condition to recognise that they're people with life commitments who want to keep their jobs. Any democratic event that leaves the desired outcome open for interpretation takes us no further to solving Brexit. I'd prefer people to be able to vote for MP's who they knew would represent their voice if elected. This hasn't happened. And yes, a free-for-all. Labour voters in Manchester want Remain, in Boston they want to Leave. Individual MPs have a responsibility to act as instructed by the people that elected them. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2019 23:09:36 GMT
Could someone please explain how this woman can continue leading our country, given the rank hypocrisy of her position on repeatedly bringing back, because she doesn't like the answer, the same question to parliament when nothing has materially changed, yet flat out denying the people another chance to vote on something where there has been massive material change? Especially given that her defeats have been unprecedentedly seismic, and the one of the people very, very slender? Thank God there are enough MP's who've found a backbone, and put country before party, I just hope they don't lose their nerve now. I would think Bercow is gonna call time on this desperate tactic of bringing the same shiite deal back and back again. It's gotta be stopped because there is a chance that any vote could now be manipulated along lines that are nothing at all to do with Brexit and everything to do with how miserably poor she has been as the party leader. |
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Post by colebridgebull on Mar 13, 2019 23:22:07 GMT
Erm...no. That's a ridiculous analogy. Other opinions are available despite the usual ridicule from the left of the spectrum You could do everyone a favour and address the rest of my post which you have chosen to ignore. Or is that a bit too tricky? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2019 6:30:15 GMT
You could do everyone a favour and address the rest of my post which you have chosen to ignore. Or is that a bit too tricky? About as tricky as successful use of the forum's quote feature. Bordering on rocket science, apparently. |
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Post by Differentiabull on Mar 14, 2019 7:49:04 GMT
Could someone please explain how this woman can continue leading our country, given the rank hypocrisy of her position on repeatedly bringing back, because she doesn't like the answer, the same question to parliament when nothing has materially changed, yet flat out denying the people another chance to vote on something where there has been massive material change? Especially given that her defeats have been unprecedentedly seismic, and the one of the people very, very slender? Thank God there are enough MP's who've found a backbone, and put country before party, I just hope they don't lose their nerve now. I think her deal going through is more likely now, though, isn't it? Brexiteers are now in a position where this is likely their best chance to get any sort of brexit. If this WA doesn't get through, what possible route is there to a getting a better (from their perspective) deal? May's tactic of running down the clock might just work eventually. Of course, the cynic in me thinks the likes of Farage rather hopes brexit does fall apart, so they can continue to build a career on campaigning to leave the EU. |
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Post by Palms Halt on Mar 14, 2019 8:30:18 GMT
Prominent Leave proponents, Johnson, Gove, Rees-Mogg, Fox, Davis, Redwood, all had the chance to put their hat into the ring to lead the UK out of the EU. Below are some of their comments on how easy the process would be "The day after we vote to leave, we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want." Michael Gove, April 2016 "Getting out of the EU can be quick and easy – the UK holds most of the cards." John Redwood, July 2016 " It is like threading the eye of a needle. If you have a good eye and a steady hand, it is easy enough," David Davis, December 2016, dismissing fears a Brexit deal might be difficult "Trade relations with the EU could be sorted out in 'an afternoon over a cup of coffee," Gerard Batten, UKIP Brexit spokesman, February 2017 Coming to a free trade agreement with the EU should be "one of the easiest in human history." Liam Fox, July 2017 " ... if we take a bit more of that approach, a bit more unity of purpose, we’ll get a great result out of Brexit. We’ll also unite the country." Dominic Raab, June 2018 The UK voters were given such Brexit slogans as, "Let's take back control," "Return sovereignty to the UK Parliament." The UK parliament has shown, over the last couple of years, that they should be nowhere near the control, or make sovereign decisions (sovereignty was never taken away, so could not be returned). I'd rather be governed by politicians who know what they're doing, like the EU Commissioners and civil servants who have kicked the sh!te out of the UK politicians and civil servants in the negotiations. For those of you who will bray "but they're not elected," they are, in a more democratic way than the UK cabinet is selected. And still people stubbornly claim they weren't mislead |
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Post by FASH on Mar 14, 2019 8:45:48 GMT
The only remaining option is to revoke Article 50. No other resolution. No, we can still leave without a deal and so we should regardless of the consequences. You never know, the trade solutions might bring great prosperity. No-one knows. Democracy must prevail or we might as well appoint an octopus to make all the important decisions. |
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Post by changeabull on Mar 14, 2019 8:58:13 GMT
Although, sadly, I'm also finding that at work people are still more pressed by netflix, step count/the fecking gym, holidays and what they have pre-prepared for tea. General engagement in this as a discussion topic is virtually non-existent. I've noticed that too. Anyone spending their time on internet forums and news sites would be forgiven for thinking Brexit was the most momentous issue in recent history yet out there in the real world, I can barely recall having a conversation about it since we voted to leave. To most people it really isn't that big an issue. At the end of the day, whether we leave or remain, I don't think the average person will notice any significant difference in the quality of their life. The world will carry on turning, people will still go to work, live in houses, go on holiday and have nice things for tea. |
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Post by Peroni on Mar 14, 2019 8:59:12 GMT
The only remaining option is to revoke Article 50. No other resolution. No, we can still leave without a deal and so we should regardless of the consequences. You never know, the trade solutions might bring great prosperity. No-one knows. Democracy must prevail or we might as well appoint an octopus ww and colebridge to make all the important decisions. amended for you |
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Post by Peroni on Mar 14, 2019 9:04:45 GMT
Erm...no. That's a ridiculous analogy. The referendum in 2016 provided a binary choice. No-one actually applied their minds on the Leave side as to how to actually deliver Brexit. It's now become clear that it is undeliverable in any form that is not deeply damaging to the country. This is a shambolic failure. As such, the grown up thing to do is to call the whole farce off and actually spend time repairing the country. No-one won. Because there was never anything to win that we didn't already have. Surely even the most ardent Brexiteer must now see that. Don't they...? said like a true remainer  |
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Post by lazarus on Mar 14, 2019 9:09:42 GMT
About as tricky as successful use of the forum's quote feature. Bordering on rocket science, apparently. to people who have a life beyond internet it is close to rocket science. nice to know what a caring and tolerant person you are. |
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Post by timmeee on Mar 14, 2019 9:11:02 GMT
This will probably be an unpopular opinion but.....
There has been so much arrogance and unprofessionalism from both sides from our elected officials that I hope that even if parliament votes today to delay Brexit that the EU tell us where to shove it, and that we’ll be leaving on 29th deal or no deal.
On a side note David Cameron must shoulder the blame for this mess, his promise of a referendum at the 2015 election was only made to ensure he was elected as PM but he would’ve been elected as PM anyway without any such promise.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2019 9:15:43 GMT
Inasmuch as every conversation is seeking to make the best of a bad job, it shouldn't be happening.
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Post by colebridgebull on Mar 14, 2019 9:44:26 GMT
No, we can still leave without a deal and so we should regardless of the consequences. You never know, the trade solutions might bring great prosperity. No-one knows. Democracy must prevail or we might as well appoint an octopus ww and colebridge to make all the important decisions. amended for you Could do worse. We'd still have a football club, a 250 year lease (or 242) and this thread would never have happened. EAW |
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FASH
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Post by FASH on Mar 14, 2019 9:44:27 GMT
It should be happening, the people voted for it.
Until we live in a geniocracy we should accept the decision of the masses, regardless of how thick the bourgeoisie think they are.
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FASH
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Post by FASH on Mar 14, 2019 9:49:52 GMT
Could do worse. We'd still have a football club, a 250 year lease (or 242) and this thread would never have happened. EAW Apart from you were in favour of closing the club down and starting again. Plus you cheerleaded Keyte's two year contracts and liberal spending up until the point when it was completely obvious to a potato that the club's future was at risk. |
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Post by Palms Halt on Mar 14, 2019 9:59:53 GMT
It should be happening, the people voted for it. Well of course they did, because they were told lots of things that weren't true: Prominent Leave proponents, Johnson, Gove, Rees-Mogg, Fox, Davis, Redwood, all had the chance to put their hat into the ring to lead the UK out of the EU. Below are some of their comments on how easy the process would be "The day after we vote to leave, we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want." Michael Gove, April 2016 "Getting out of the EU can be quick and easy – the UK holds most of the cards." John Redwood, July 2016 " It is like threading the eye of a needle. If you have a good eye and a steady hand, it is easy enough," David Davis, December 2016, dismissing fears a Brexit deal might be difficult "Trade relations with the EU could be sorted out in 'an afternoon over a cup of coffee," Gerard Batten, UKIP Brexit spokesman, February 2017 Coming to a free trade agreement with the EU should be "one of the easiest in human history." Liam Fox, July 2017 " ... if we take a bit more of that approach, a bit more unity of purpose, we’ll get a great result out of Brexit. We’ll also unite the country." Dominic Raab, June 2018 The UK voters were given such Brexit slogans as, "Let's take back control," "Return sovereignty to the UK Parliament." The UK parliament has shown, over the last couple of years, that they should be nowhere near the control, or make sovereign decisions (sovereignty was never taken away, so could not be returned). I'd rather be governed by politicians who know what they're doing, like the EU Commissioners and civil servants who have kicked the sh!te out of the UK politicians and civil servants in the negotiations. For those of you who will bray "but they're not elected," they are, in a more democratic way than the UK cabinet is selected. Remoaners warned that the EU wouldn't desperately give us whatever we wanted for free, but this was dismissed hysterically as "pR0JECT FEAR11!!!!!" by the usual playground bully types |
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