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Post by sittingbull on Dec 12, 2018 19:33:22 GMT
Interestingly the Leave campaign made it very clear before the June 2016 vote that there was no question of BREXIT meaning leaving the single market or the customs union. There was no “no Deal” being proposed. Indeed, the Secretary of State for Exiting the EU (one David Davis- the person with responsibility for it all) said that it would be the easiest thing in the world to negotiate a free trade deal with the EU, Those who voted Leave were lied to. Again and again. You’re still being lied to. And you know it. If we could look into the future..... more would of voted leave.......no one could predict how the E.U. would react........lets just get on with it and make our own future work.......after all we are Hereford fans......we are use to being treated like sh!t by others....... |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2018 19:35:46 GMT
What we are seeing is the end game of a 40 year battle for the soul of the Tory party - if it ever had one.
Over that time they have cared for no-one other than themselves, at the expense of a country now battling cuts, austerity, zero hour contracts, gig economy and monkey dust.
Whatever happens in the next few weeks, they are staring into the abyss of nonentity. They are finished as both a party and a philosophy, having made the fatal error of finally showing their true colours.
We will no doubt see a new centre right party, which may even attract a few disaffected labourites, but IMO we are witnessing the death of the Conservative and Unionist Party.
And not before time. The people of this still great country have been their catamites for long enough.
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Post by colebridgebull on Dec 12, 2018 19:38:29 GMT
"Davis"
He was BREXIT Minister for 18 months. Head of the Department. His job was to deliver BREXIT. He singularly failed to do so. It's very convenient to now say that he wasn't allowed to. It's part of the narrative now being adopted to try and shift the blame away from those who most advocated the impossible and yet have not come up with one single suggestion about how to achieve it. Not one.
Raab is one of those politicians who has been promoted waaaaay beyond his pay grade. Good at sound bites, hopeless at detail. An empty vessel.
There has never been any attempt to try and convince those of us who voted Remain to come on board. Which is the biggest indicator that the Brexit emperor has no clothes.
The chickens are coming home to roost and it's all the fault of the snake-oil salesmen elite.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2018 19:39:06 GMT
Remainer Brexit scares and reality
By Annabelle Dickson | 10/10/17, 1:08 PM CET | Updated 10/23/17, 9:36 AM CET
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A pro-Brexit sticker is seen on car in the car park at the UKIP annual conference being held at the The Riviera International Center on September 29, 2017 in Torquay, England | Matt Cardy/Getty Images
LONDON — The punishment budget, the breakup of the United Kingdom and even the end of Western civilization as we know it — all were prophesied by the Remain campaign during the Brexit referendum and denounced as “Project Fear” by Leavers.
More than a year on from the referendum and with Brexit talks well underway, POLITICO asks whether the Remain campaign’s crystal ball got it right.
1. The punishment budget
What was said: George Osborne, the then Chancellor, said in a BBC Radio 4 interview that leaving the European Union would cause “financial instability” and leave “no economic plan,” which would need an immediate response from the government. “There would have to be increases in tax and cuts in public spending to fill the black hole,” he said.
What happened: Osborne was sacked by Theresa May when she became prime minister on July 13, less than a month after the referendum. Shortly after his appointment the same day, his successor Philip Hammond announced there were no plans for an emergency budget. In the meantime, the Bank of England warned of “challenging” risks to financial stability following the Brexit vote and made £150 billion in lending available for businesses and households to help mitigate the shock of the surprise vote.
The U.K. economy is still growing, albeit at a slower rate than pre-referendum and at around half the speed of the eurozone. The latest Office for National Statistics figures suggest Britain’s economy grew 1.5 percent in the three months ending in June from the same period in 2016. The latest U.K. unemployment figures from the ONS show the proportion of people out of work is at its lowest since 1975 (4.3 percent). But a year on from the vote, the pound had lost 15 percent of its value against the dollar, pushing up inflation.
What next: Hammond will deliver his next budget on November 22. But he is expected to do so in the context of weak economic forecasts.
2. The NHS finances would be undermined
What was said: Former Health Minister Stephen Dorrell warned: “We need a strong economy to guarantee the growth in funding that the health and care service requires and evidence suggests leaving the EU would undermine this.”
What happened: In his March budget, the chancellor announced the social care system would have another £2 billion pumped into it over the next three years and an extra £100 million would be made available for new triage programs at English hospitals this winter. He also set aside an extra £325 million to allow the first NHS Sustainability and Transformation Plans to proceed.
What next: Campaigners and experts say the NHS needs more money than it is getting because it is facing unprecedented financial and operational pressures.
3. David Cameron would stay on as prime minister
What was said: Former Prime Minister David Cameron said that if the Leave campaign won, he would stay on to negotiate Brexit.
What happened: Cameron announced his resignation hours after the referendum result.
What next: Despite a disastrous snap election result and a poor Conservative Party conference performance, Theresa May is still in Downing Street and many MPs still believe she will remain in office to deliver Brexit.
4. Families would be £4,300 worse off if the UK voted to leave
What was said: The Treasury warned that Britain would be £4,300 a year worse off per household in 15 years if Britain votes to leave the European Union.
What has happened: It is only 16 months since the vote. Real disposable household income shrank by 1.1 percent per person in the 12 months to June, according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS).
What next: The Office for Budget Responsibility has warned in its fiscal risks report that if GDP and receipts grow just 0.1 percent more slowly than projected over the next 50 years, but with spending growth unchanged, the debt-to-GDP ratio would end up around 50 percent higher.
5. Brexit will destroy Western civilization as we know it
What was said: European Council President Donald Tusk said a vote to leave the EU would boost anti-European forces. “As a historian I fear Brexit could be the beginning of the destruction of not only the EU but also Western political civilization in its entirety,” he told the German newspaper Bild.
What happened: Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte defeated anti-EU populist Geert Wilders in the Netherlands’ parliamentary election and far-right leader Marine Le Pen lost to Emmanuel Macron in France’s presidential runoff.
What next: The far-right threat may not be over. In Germany, the Alternative for Germany (AfD) has entered the lower house of Germany’s parliament for the first time, after it finished third on about 13 percent of the vote in the federal election. And Euroskeptic parties are set to perform well in Italy’s election next year.
6. Peace at risk
What was said: David Cameron warned: “Can we be so sure that peace and stability on our Continent are assured beyond any shadow of doubt? Is that a risk worth taking? I would never be so rash as to make that assumption.”
What happened: There are no current wars between EU countries.
7. Britain would be at ‘the back of the queue’ for a US trade deal
What was said: President Barack Obama (remember him?) said the United Kingdom would be “in the back of the queue” for future free-trade agreements with the United States if it left the European Union.
What happened: At the G20 summit in August, U.S. President Donald Trump predicted a “very powerful” trade deal with the U.K. after Brexit. “We have been working on a trade deal which will be a very, very big deal, a very powerful deal, great for both countries and I think we will have that done very, very quickly,” he said.
What next: The U.S. is one of seven trade big-hitters that have rejected one of the U.K.’s core plans for reintegrating into global trade networks. It is also set to impose ultra-high tariffs that could hit thousands of jobs at the Bombardier plane factory in Northern Ireland.
7. The Scots would immediately vote to leave
What was said: Leader of Labour’s pro-EU campaign Alan Johnson said Scots could be justified in wanting to leave the U.K. if there was a heavy vote in Scotland against such a decision.
What happened: The Remain campaign captured 62 percent of votes in Scotland compared with 46.6 percent in England. The pro-independence Scottish National Party lost a third of its seats in the 2017 U.K. general election after Brexit.
What next: In June, Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon “reset” her government’s plan for a second independence referendum. She said she is waiting for the outcome of the Brexit talks.
8. Northern Ireland
What was said: Former Prime Ministers Tony Blair and John Major warned that the Northern Ireland peace process could be at risk if the U.K. voted for Brexit. Border controls and customs checks could return between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, they said.
What happened: Northern Ireland remains peaceful. It has been without a first and deputy first minister since January and a functioning executive since March. The institutions stopped operating when late Sinn Fein Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness resigned over the DUP’s handling of a botched renewable heat energy scheme.
What next: So important is agreement on this question to the overall success of the Brexit talks, that the highest-ranking officials on each side of EU negotiations — Oliver Robbins for the U.K. and Sabine Weyand for the EU — are personally overseeing negotiations about the Northern Irish border
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Post by colebridgebull on Dec 12, 2018 19:43:18 GMT
What we are seeing is the end game of a 40 year battle for the soul of the Tory party - if it ever had one. Over that time they have cared for no-one other than themselves, at the expense of a country now battling cuts, austerity, zero hour contracts, gig economy and monkey dust. Whatever happens in the next few weeks, they are staring into the abyss of nonentity. They are finished as both a party and a philosophy, having made the fatal error of finally showing their true colours. We will no doubt see a new centre right party, which may even attract a few disaffected labourites, but IMO we are witnessing the death of the Conservative and Unionist Party. And not before time. The people of this still great country have been their catamites for long enough. It'll be the inevitable consequence of May winning tonight. Simply because that will kill off any lingering notion of "no deal" leaving a choice between trying to make May's withdrawal agreement palatable (it isn't and won't be) or revoking Article 50 and giving the country a well needed pause. Probably with an election as with the right of the party detached, a no confidence vote will surely follow. A party fighting an election on a Remain mandate behind a decent leader (Grieve, Cooper or Starmer) would walk it. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2018 19:44:28 GMT
What we are seeing is the end game of a 40 year battle for the soul of the Tory party - if it ever had one. Over that time they have cared for no-one other than themselves, at the expense of a country now battling cuts, austerity, zero hour contracts, gig economy and monkey dust. Whatever happens in the next few weeks, they are staring into the abyss of nonentity. They are finished as both a party and a philosophy, having made the fatal error of finally showing their true colours. We will no doubt see a new centre right party, which may even attract a few disaffected labourites, but IMO we are witnessing the death of the Conservative and Unionist Party. And not before time. The people of this still great country have been their catamites for long enough. Oh good grief. Same thing happened with Labour not too long ago. Are you having another Millwall drunken moment again? |
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Post by colebridgebull on Dec 12, 2018 19:52:59 GMT
You do know what's going on at the moment presumably....
This isn't normal. Or "strong and stable". The Conservative Party is having a massive breakdown in full view of the whole world.
Or are you doing an ostrich impersonation?
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Post by colebridgebull on Dec 12, 2018 20:00:09 GMT
Anyhow.
Best result for Remainers will be a May win. Fingers crossed.
Presumably the ERG will accept the will of their party and get behind her....
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2018 20:06:49 GMT
What we are seeing is the end game of a 40 year battle for the soul of the Tory party - if it ever had one. Over that time they have cared for no-one other than themselves, at the expense of a country now battling cuts, austerity, zero hour contracts, gig economy and monkey dust. Whatever happens in the next few weeks, they are staring into the abyss of nonentity. They are finished as both a party and a philosophy, having made the fatal error of finally showing their true colours. We will no doubt see a new centre right party, which may even attract a few disaffected labourites, but IMO we are witnessing the death of the Conservative and Unionist Party. And not before time. The people of this still great country have been their catamites for long enough. So, nothing in there about the Labour Party. Same old sh!te. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2018 20:10:34 GMT
Corbyn had a chance to do something significant - like advocate Remain.
Instead he has continued to tread the nihilistic path.
"Labour" no longer identified as empathetic with the working classes.
"Momentum" - lost.
Unlucky.
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Post by Monkey Tennis on Dec 12, 2018 20:16:21 GMT
To be fair like, the whole thing's gone to sh1t.
It was always going to, and won't be getting any better anytime soon.
Should I ever vote again, I'd vote for the German MEP bloke I heard on 5Live earlier (even if he wasn't standing) purely on the basis that he sounded as p1ssed off with us as I do.
What a shambles.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2018 20:17:11 GMT
Although I have never seen it, one of my favourite films is Sliding Doors. Bear with.
The above is based purely on someone explaining to me the plot being based on two completely different story lines hinging on missing or catching a train. Or something like that.
I would love to have a peek at where the UK would be if we hadn't had any of this going on.
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Post by Incognito on Dec 12, 2018 20:24:00 GMT
"Davis" He was BREXIT Minister for 18 months. Head of the Department. His job was to deliver BREXIT. He singularly failed to do so. It's very convenient to now say that he wasn't allowed to. It's part of the narrative now being adopted to try and shift the blame away from those who most advocated the impossible and yet have not come up with one single suggestion about how to achieve it. Not one. Raab is one of those politicians who has been promoted waaaaay beyond his pay grade. Good at sound bites, hopeless at detail. An empty vessel. There has never been any attempt to try and convince those of us who voted Remain to come on board. Which is the biggest indicator that the Brexit emperor has no clothes. The chickens are coming home to roost and it's all the fault of the snake-oil salesmen elite. What difference does it make how long he was in office if the whole period was controlled by a PM who didn't want to leave in the first place. The longer this goes on the more I become convinced that May has steered a course designed to end up almost precisely where we are. In typical Tory manner they have lied and conned their way through two years promising the moon and the stars and now they've arrived, the stars are the wrong shape and the moon is the wrong colour. Following the referendum, Article 50 should have been triggered, immediate steps taken to start negotiations with non-EU trading countries and The EU left to sweat on how they were going to negotiate a continuation of huge amount of trade they do with The UK....worth reminding ourselves that their trade with us is far greater than our trade with them. They would have been a damn sight more accommodating for sure. What about the Irish border I hear you ask. Well, England doesn't want a closed border, the Welch don't, I doubt the Scotch do and The North and The South sure as hell don't. The only people that do are The EU. Fine, let them sort it out and make their agreements directly. They can build it, man it, pay for it, settle the border disputes and devise a system to collect their precious tariffs.  |
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Post by mikeunderpenyard on Dec 12, 2018 20:26:52 GMT
Who first coined the term brexit?
It's as annoying as f**ty and u*i.
Get the sas to sort it out.
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Post by Monkey Tennis on Dec 12, 2018 20:37:23 GMT
Although I have never seen it, one of my favourite films is Sliding Doors. Bear with. The above is based purely on someone explaining to me the plot being based on two completely different story lines hinging on missing or catching a train. Or something like that. I would love to have a peek at where the UK would be if we hadn't had any of this going on. We'll never know. But Harry White may have hung around a bit longer. Not sure if that's a good or a bad thing. |
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Post by colebridgebull on Dec 12, 2018 20:38:27 GMT
"Davis" He was BREXIT Minister for 18 months. Head of the Department. His job was to deliver BREXIT. He singularly failed to do so. It's very convenient to now say that he wasn't allowed to. It's part of the narrative now being adopted to try and shift the blame away from those who most advocated the impossible and yet have not come up with one single suggestion about how to achieve it. Not one. Raab is one of those politicians who has been promoted waaaaay beyond his pay grade. Good at sound bites, hopeless at detail. An empty vessel. There has never been any attempt to try and convince those of us who voted Remain to come on board. Which is the biggest indicator that the Brexit emperor has no clothes. The chickens are coming home to roost and it's all the fault of the snake-oil salesmen elite. What difference does it make how long he was in office if the whole period was controlled by a PM who didn't want to leave in the first place. The longer this goes on the more I become convinced that May has steered a course designed to end up almost precisely where we are. In typical Tory manner they have lied and conned their way through two years promising the moon and the stars and now they've arrived, the stars are the wrong shape and the moon is the wrong colour. Following the referendum, Article 50 should have been triggered, immediate steps taken to start negotiations with non-EU trading countries and The EU left to sweat on how they were going to negotiate a continuation of huge amount of trade they do with The UK....worth reminding ourselves that their trade with us is far greater than our trade with them. They would have been a damn sight more accommodating for sure. What about the Irish border I hear you ask. Well, England doesn't want a closed border, the Welch don't, I doubt the Scotch do and The North and The South sure as hell don't. The only people that do are The EU. Fine, let them sort it out and make their agreements directly. They can build it, man it, pay for it, settle the border disputes and devise a system to collect their precious tariffs. Now you tell us.... |
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Post by colebridgebull on Dec 12, 2018 20:42:55 GMT
Although I have never seen it, one of my favourite films is Sliding Doors. Bear with. The above is based purely on someone explaining to me the plot being based on two completely different story lines hinging on missing or catching a train. Or something like that. I would love to have a peek at where the UK would be if we hadn't had any of this going on. We'll never know. But Harry White may have hung around a bit longer. Not sure if that's a good or a bad thing. Our very own version is predicated on Lonsdale not getting stuck in traffic. HUFC would be tearing through the Football League. Jon Taylor and the fat U9 girlsfootball bully sweeping all before them. Spicy soup a feature in every ground. Ed Milliband in No.10 having declined the offer of a bacon sarnie. |
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Post by Monkey Tennis on Dec 12, 2018 20:43:51 GMT
Who first coined the term brexit? It's as annoying as f**ty and u*i. Get the German MEP who likes footy to sort it out. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2018 20:46:23 GMT
We'll never know. But Harry White may have hung around a bit longer. Not sure if that's a good or a bad thing. Our very own version is predicated on Lonsdale not getting stuck in traffic. HUFC would be tearing through the Football League. Jon Taylor and the fat U9 girlsfootball bully sweeping all before them. Spicy soup a feature in every ground. Ed Milliband in No.10 having declined the offer of a bacon sarnie.
That's all very well, but what about David's banana?
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Post by Monkey Tennis on Dec 12, 2018 20:53:46 GMT
Here we go.
Maybe not.
Oh, hang on - turtles head....
Well well. 117 votes against.
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