hs1
Junior Member
Posts: 31
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Post by hs1 on Jul 12, 2018 6:28:13 GMT
No. You still haven't told us what you want. Lime most leave voters I'm quite happy for us to continue to trade with out EU neighbours. Unfortunately instead of staying as a trading union the EU has become an out of control monster that wants to abandon all national boundaries and create a European Superstate. I also want an end to freedom of movement and for the UK to control it's own borders. Tens of thousands of Eastern European asylum seekers have poured into the UK in recent years and our infrastructure, our schools and our hospitals simply can't cope with them. How many people from the UK have gone in the other direction to live and work in Romania for example? Ten, twenty at most? Now do you see why freedom of movement is bad for the UK? Everyone wants to come and live here, hardly anyone wants to go in the opposite direction. Serious question, which I have been pondering since the referendum was first announced. Where does this border control happen with regard to the island of Ireland? As far as I can see there are only two options. Either passport control is established between Northern Ireland and the Republic, which is unacceptable to the communities on both sides of the border and is very expensive to maintain. Alternatively, the border is set around the UK mainland with the result that the people of Northern Ireland don't have freedom of movement in their own country! Neither of these options is workable in my opinion, and after 2 years of ignoring the problem we seem no nearer a solution. However, without one I can't see how we can leave the EU and 'take back control' in a way to satisfy the Leave camp. |
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Post by Palms Halt on Jul 12, 2018 7:47:25 GMT
Neither of these options is workable in my opinion, and after 2 years of ignoring the problem we seem no nearer a solution. However, without one I can't see how we can leave the EU and 'take back control' in a way to satisfy the Leave camp. Whatever happens the Leave camp won't get most of what they hoped for, and obviously those who want to remain won't be happy. Basically, we'll all be screwed over. |
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Post by sevenoaksbull on Jul 15, 2018 17:05:09 GMT
On the subject of the Irish border, Isn’t it the EU who are creating the problem? Before the EU there was always free movement between the Republic and Northern Ireland and citizens of the Republic could travel freely to anywhere in the UK where they could vote and access health and welfare benefits. Physical border checks became more common during The Troubles, but Trade flowed pretty freely as I recall.
The problem now seems to be a lack of pragmatists on either side and an Irish premier who is more interested in his own advancement within the EU hierarchy than the good of his country - at least that’s what I hear from my many Irish friends, all of whom it should be said detested the old hegemony the governed Ireland and hoped for better things from Varadkar.
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Post by singe on Jul 15, 2018 19:34:30 GMT
On the subject of the Irish border, Isn’t it the EU who are creating the problem? Before the EU there was always free movement between the Republic and Northern Ireland and citizens of the Republic could travel freely to anywhere in the UK where they could vote and access health and welfare benefits. Physical border checks became more common during The Troubles, but Trade flowed pretty freely as I recall. The problem now seems to be a lack of pragmatists on either side and an Irish premier who is more interested in his own advancement within the EU hierarchy than the good of his country - at least that’s what I hear from my many Irish friends, all of whom it should be said detested the old hegemony the governed Ireland and hoped for better things from Varadkar. Well, it depends how you look at events in Northern Ireland and how far you want to go back. Some believe Britain is responsible on account of it's cavalier attitude over Ireland (plantations, Black and Tans etc, etc) going back many centuries and the issues surfacing now are coming home to roost. |
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Post by Gresty on Jul 15, 2018 19:59:05 GMT
And how are things looking with your Maori neighbours, Singe?
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Post by colebridgebull on Jul 15, 2018 20:00:34 GMT
But, in short, the border problem is nothing to do with the EU and everything to do with the UK deciding to leave the customs union without considering the issue of how to take control of the one physical border it will then share with the remaining 27 countries.
It’s a dilly of a pickle...
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Post by singe on Jul 15, 2018 20:02:22 GMT
And how are things looking with your Maori neighbours, Singe? There's been concerted efforts to address issues of the past over decades now - issues instigated by the British, now you ask. Thanks for the query. |
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Post by changeabull on Jul 15, 2018 20:05:04 GMT
On the subject of the Irish border, Isn’t it the EU who are creating the problem? Before the EU there was always free movement between the Republic and Northern Ireland and citizens of the Republic could travel freely to anywhere in the UK where they could vote and access health and welfare benefits. Physical border checks became more common during The Troubles, but Trade flowed pretty freely as I recall. The problem now seems to be a lack of pragmatists on either side and an Irish premier who is more interested in his own advancement within the EU hierarchy than the good of his country - at least that’s what I hear from my many Irish friends, all of whom it should be said detested the old hegemony the governed Ireland and hoped for better things from Varadkar. The simplest solution would be to offer the citizens of both Northern Ireland and the Republic a referendum on whether they wish to leave the EU. It's pretty obvious that both countries would vote leave! |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2018 20:10:34 GMT
On the subject of the Irish border, Isn’t it the EU who are creating the problem? Before the EU there was always free movement between the Republic and Northern Ireland and citizens of the Republic could travel freely to anywhere in the UK where they could vote and access health and welfare benefits. Physical border checks became more common during The Troubles, but Trade flowed pretty freely as I recall. The problem now seems to be a lack of pragmatists on either side and an Irish premier who is more interested in his own advancement within the EU hierarchy than the good of his country - at least that’s what I hear from my many Irish friends, all of whom it should be said detested the old hegemony the governed Ireland and hoped for better things from Varadkar. The simplest solution would be to offer the citizens of both Northern Ireland and the Republic a referendum on whether they wish to leave the EU. It's pretty obvious that both countries would vote leave!
Given the choice, I'd like to think that the Irish, of both persuasions, would vote to stop egotistical politicans spending their taxes on referendums and actually do some work.
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Post by sevenoaksbull on Jul 16, 2018 20:11:10 GMT
But, in short, the border problem is nothing to do with the EU and everything to do with the UK deciding to leave the customs union without considering the issue of how to take control of the one physical border it will then share with the remaining 27 countries. It’s a dilly of a pickle... Well yes, but my point is that before 1973, when both UK and Ireland joined up, there was already a pretty free border. Each side could move freely to the other, get work, vote, get healthcare etc. There were and remain different duty rates - diesel smuggling is endemic in some parts still - so the only thing stopping a workable solution is egotists on both sides and the entrenched entitlement of the EU bureaucracy. Lets face it, how many of the other 27 are going to export to the UK via Ireland? It just needs a sensible agreement on bilateral trade. Not rocket science really. As an aside, after the crash of 2007/08, which in Ireland was caused by 4 greedy bankers and a bloke called Quinn who owned a quarry, many of my Celtic mates seriously thought Ireland should rejoin the UK for financial stability. Soon changed their minds, but strangely only after the UK Govt had bunged Ireland a few Billion to keep their economy from crashing. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2018 22:14:47 GMT
And how are things looking with your Maori neighbours, Singe? There's been concerted efforts to address issues of the past over decades now - issues instigated by the British, now you ask. Thanks for the query. Think you'll find that Elmo's grandparents are entirely responsible for that. F*ckers. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2018 14:25:59 GMT
Given that the prime minister has categorically and unequivocally rejected calls for a second referendum, when do we think the second referendum will actually happen?
I'm saying first week of August.
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Post by Incognito on Jul 17, 2018 14:37:02 GMT
2020?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2018 14:46:43 GMT
I am hoping that Mystic CB will soon start putting up the next week's lottery numbers on a regular basis.
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Post by Barney still in B-Block on Jul 17, 2018 14:47:19 GMT
Given that the prime minister has categorically and unequivocally rejected calls for a second referendum, when do we think the second referendum will actually happen? I'm saying first week of August.
Should really, TBFL, give the LieBus liars a few extra weeks to see if they can work out how to cheat without getting caught.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2018 15:00:16 GMT
The "so called LieBus".
I still miss him.
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Post by Barney still in B-Block on Jul 17, 2018 15:09:29 GMT
So called?
'If we lose a few*, so be it.'
*Quid in fines, pffft.
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FASH
Senior Member
Posts: 2,157
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Post by FASH on Jul 17, 2018 16:25:35 GMT
Why don't the remainers have a second referendum anyway, regardless if it's legal or not. Then, when they win by a landslide because the leave voters don't turn up, they could claim that democracy is broken if the result isn't acted upon, cry victimisation and wear a silly little yellow ribbon.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2018 16:26:02 GMT
I am hoping that Mystic CB will soon start putting up the next week's lottery numbers on a regular basis.  I'd also be interested in his opinion of whether there is a case to be answered regarding whether or not the cabinet is attempting to profit from what amounts to serious electoral fraud. If all goes well they might all be in clink by the time we get the official withdrawal of intention to leave the EU. |
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Post by changeabull on Jul 17, 2018 16:52:23 GMT
I am hoping that Mystic CB will soon start putting up the next week's lottery numbers on a regular basis. I'd also be interested in his opinion of whether there is a case to be answered regarding whether or not the cabinet is attempting to profit from what amounts to serious electoral fraud. If all goes well they might all be in clink by the time we get the official withdrawal of intention to leave the EU. The whole electoral fraud thing's a complete conspiracy to warn those who campaigned for Leave that that wasn't what The Elite wanted and to ensure they don't step out of line again. If you voted remain then you're part of the problem, not the solution. |
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