General Election

[Deleted]

May 31, 2017 14:43:31 GMT @corfubulls said:

Talk this morning of a hung parliament. Don't see it myself but even two weeks ago you'd never have imagined it.

My take on it is that, even in these days of social media, alt-right propaganda and money talking, sound bites and photo opportunities in safe seats are no substitute for good old fashioned campaigning. (At Tranmere FC for example.)

Remember that Corbyn has already taken part in (and won) two elections against all odds and in the face of some pretty vile opponents in the last couple of years. He has thousands of activists on the streets who are just starting to make their mark. Like a good distance runner they have timed it perfectly coming round the final bend.

IMO the Tories have made two massive mistakes. One is underestimating Corbyn's personal appeal (policies and history aside if it suits you) as illustrated by his manhole covers and jar of jam last night, and the other is treating the electorate like mugs.

Given the choice between a nice fella, a decent human being who genuinely cares about people and a vile trollop who very obviously doesn't give a toss about anything except preserving the status quo and its tightening stranglehold on every aspect of our everyday lives, I place my trust in the British people to take a bit of a stand this time round. It probably won't be enough but it will at least make us feel a bit better about ourselves.

Well first of all the only poll that really matters is the one on June 8th. Like last time they go up and down like a Yo-yo and I'd be very surprised if they're entirely accurate in the lead up this time around.

But you talk about these vile opponents in the Labour party who are against Corbyn. I suppose in this case I could applaud you for having a sense of humour, but its not really a laughing matter that so many of Corbyn's supporters really are complete and utter scum of the earth. I know we talk about small percentages but their presence on social media really has been nothing short of disgraceful these past few months. The amount of abuse I've known people take really isn't good to see.

I also can't really take the nice fella thing seriously either. Corbyn is anti British in so many ways its actually scary. He may have toned down a great deal since his backbench days but the ideals of this man are still very much ingrained. You can add a few quite unsightly divorces in there too that don't really do much for his persona. Refusing to allow his children to go to a grammar school even though he did so himself.

If anything will make the British feel better about themselves its the opposition to extremism, to anti Semitism and a politics of abuse against people who I happen to disagree with but would support in their efforts to remove a hard left ideology that belongs in the 1930's. Extremism has to be stopped at all costs, no matter what side it is on.

[Deleted]

Extremism has to be stopped at all costs, no matter what side it is on.

We keep trying mate but you keep coming back!

[Deleted]

I'll take the polling from the Scottish referendum to demonstrate the inaccuracy of polling in recent years.

There was around 20 polls in the 2 weeks leading up to the vote and not once was there a correct prediction.

The results were 18 saying a lead for remain at 6,6,1,4,6,5,2,4,1,7,4,4,4,2,5,4,5,5. The other 2 said leads for leave at 2 and 7. The actual vote brought in a 10% win for remain so the closest poll was still 3% out.

I think the reality is that the conservatives will win more seats. The only question is whether they will win by enough. If they went up by 10-20 seats its still a success. Perhaps only a minor one but certainly a good enough result. I don't take anything for granted but I just don't believe a lot of polls these days or think they're done in the right way.

[Deleted]

May 31, 2017 15:12:03 GMT @corfubulls said:

Extremism has to be stopped at all costs, no matter what side it is on.

We keep trying mate but you keep coming back!

Its a serious point though. If you were to choose some one from the Labour party to be leader could you name one who you think would be more extreme in his views?

[Deleted]

Why would anyone bother to do that?

Corbyn is in situ.

So is May.

They are who and what they are.

As I said yesterday, they're all as bad as each other in their own way.

Wouldn't /don't trust any of them.

[Deleted]

If you were to choose some one from the Labour party to be leader could you name one who you think would be more extreme in his views?

There must be thousands.

Perhaps you meant the PLP. But unlike politicians on Woman's Hour you don't get a second, third or fourth chance.

[colebridgebull]

Not bothering with Jammo's childish arguments any more, but can't let this one go.

" quite a few unsightly divorces"

He's been divorced twice. The first time in 1979, the second more recently. He's reported to still get on well with his second wife.

That's a maximum of one potentially "unsightly" divorce. 38 years ago.

What went wrong?

[Deleted]

"We can see you sneaking out ..."

Theresa May has now come up with four different reasons as to why she doesn’t need to debate Jeremy Corbyn. She managed to deploy them all as she took questions from journalists in a slightly awkward Q&A at a factory in Bath. Here they are in full.

1 - Because she debates him anyway at PMQs

This is the line Number 10 first deployed when the subject of an election debate came up, before the dissolution of parliament, and she repeated it again today.

First of all, I’ve been taking Jeremy Corbyn on directly, week in, week out, in prime minister’s questions.

2 - Because she’s more interested in meeting members of the public

Once parliament was dissolved, the PMQs answer no longer carried any weight, and at that point May started using another argument - that she would rather focus on face-to-face campaigning. When the BBC’s Laura Kuenssberg asked a few minutes ago why May did not debate Corbyn, given the importance of public scrutiny, May replied:

Yes, public scrutiny is for an election campaign. That’s why taking questions from members of the public who are going to be voting on 8 June is so important. That’s what I enjoy doing during the campaigns. And I think that’s really important. That is why I’ve been doing that up and down the country.

3 - Because debates are a bit pointless

May first used this argument last month, when she took part in a Facebook Q&A. She used it again today, in response to the third question in a row from a broadcaster about why she was refusing to debate Corbyn. May said:

I think debates where the politicians are squabbling among themselves doesn’t do anything for the process of electioneering. I think it’s about getting out and about, meeting voters and hearing directly from voters.

May is actually wrong about this. This is from the conclusion of a report by academics into the 2015 election debates that investigated whether they were useful to voters.

The findings we have presented show that the 2015 TV election debates performed a crucially important civic role, reaching sections of the population least likely to be touched by the rest of the campaign; helping citizens to acquire the information they need to make meaningful choices; and thereby boosting the electorate’s confidence. Whatever their strategic effects might have been in terms of inter-party competition, the debates served democratic citizenship.

4 - Because she is too busy preparing for Brexit

Sky’s Faisal Islam was the first journalist to ask May today why she was not debating Corbyn. Here is her reply in full.

I’m interested in the fact that Jeremy Corbyn seems to be paying far more attention to how many appearances on telly he’s doing. I think he ought to be paying a little more attention to thinking about Brexit negotiations. That’s what I’m doing, to make sure we get the best possible deal for Britain.

Presumably May said this because she is because she is trying to keep the focus of the campaign on Brexit, not because she really cannot afford the time for a debate because she is busy with Brexit prep, but it is what she said.

[eggchaserbull]

May 31, 2017 14:59:56 GMT @jammo said:

May 31, 2017 14:43:31 GMT @corfubulls said:

Well first of all the only poll that really matters is the one on June 8th. Like last time they go up and down like a Yo-yo and I'd be very surprised if they're entirely accurate in the lead up this time around.

But you talk about these vile opponents in the Labour party who are against Corbyn. I suppose in this case I could applaud you for having a sense of humour, but its not really a laughing matter that so many of Corbyn's supporters really are complete and utter scum of the earth. I know we talk about small percentages but their presence on social media really has been nothing short of disgraceful these past few months. The amount of abuse I've known people take really isn't good to see.

I also can't really take the nice fella thing seriously either. Corbyn is anti British in so many ways its actually scary. He may have toned down a great deal since his backbench days but the ideals of this man are still very much ingrained. You can add a few quite unsightly divorces in there too that don't really do much for his persona. Refusing to allow his children to go to a grammar school even though he did so himself.

If anything will make the British feel better about themselves its the opposition to extremism, to anti Semitism and a politics of abuse against people who I happen to disagree with but would support in their efforts to remove a hard left ideology that belongs in the 1930's. Extremism has to be stopped at all costs, no matter what side it is on.

Never could get my bloody Yo-yo to do that.

[Deleted]

May 31, 2017 15:29:33 GMT colebridgebull said:

Not bothering with Jammo's childish arguments any more, but can't let this one go.

" quite a few unsightly divorces"

He's been divorced twice. The first time in 1979, the second more recently. He's reported to still get on well with his second wife.

That's a maximum of one potentially "unsightly" divorce. 38 years ago.

What went wrong?

You say they're childish because you have nothing credible to reply with. The only thing that's really childish is the constant lack of serious debate when it comes to my posts. No one bothers to reply to the points I've made because they are facts. You may have destroyed the forum by driving everyone else away but it wont work here.

[colebridgebull]

Sigh (again)

I did reply. How many times has Corbyn had an "unsightly" divorce. I explained to you, as gently as possible, that that assertion was patently untrue

I do find the increasingly ridiculous attacks on Corbyn childish. As such, I'm dealing with post, not playing the poster.

I'll leave others to comment on why your posts are increasingly ignored. Although there may be a clue in that your posts are ignored, while many others lead to debate. Perhaps its your rather aggressive style?

[Deleted]

I'll leave others to comment on why your posts are increasingly ignored. Although there may be a clue in that your posts are ignored, while many others lead to debate. Perhaps its your rather aggressive style?

I'd always put it down to the fact that he talks bollox.

[Peroni]

destroyed the forum you have. powerful you have become, the dark side I sense in you.

[colebridgebull]

Jammo Shitetalker

I am your father...

Take control of the force

[bigglesbull]

May 30, 2017 19:51:53 GMT jimcarrey said:

May 29, 2017 21:57:59 GMT jimcarrey said:

I meant to define the ageing population part of my post. Think of all the folks over 60+ that no longer contribute but use the nhs compared to say 50 years ago when the average lifespan was a lot lower.

And I dare say there are a lot more people who are unemployed now compared to back then.

Incognito.

Above is my original post.

You can see that at no point I suggest that any retired folks haven't contributed to the coffers during their time.

Edit....buggar that didn't work.

Nuff said

[Deleted]

Anyone woukd think that the UK is the only nation with an ageing population.

Are there no other states within the EU that have a similar situation?

I don't recall such aggression being directed at older people in other countries. In Italy particularly, but also in France, Greece and Spain, the "older generation" is cherished, even celebrated.

I see the situation here in this regard as typical of the nasty, beligerent attitudes of some folk.

[Deleted]

In Italy particularly, but also in France, Greece and Spain, the "older generation" is cherished, even celebrated.

Cherished so much that basic pensions have been cut from 1,200 euros a month to 400 and pensioners are eating out of dustbins.

[Deleted]

I see the situation here in this regard as typical of the nasty, beligerent attitudes of some folk.

You'll be wanting cheaper season tickets next! You grasping old gits really test my socialist principles.

[Incognito]

May 31, 2017 14:59:56 GMT @jammo said:

May 31, 2017 14:43:31 GMT @corfubulls said:

Talk this morning of a hung parliament. Don't see it myself but even two weeks ago you'd never have imagined it.

My take on it is that, even in these days of social media, alt-right propaganda and money talking, sound bites and photo opportunities in safe seats are no substitute for good old fashioned campaigning. (At Tranmere FC for example.)

Remember that Corbyn has already taken part in (and won) two elections against all odds and in the face of some pretty vile opponents in the last couple of years. He has thousands of activists on the streets who are just starting to make their mark. Like a good distance runner they have timed it perfectly coming round the final bend.

IMO the Tories have made two massive mistakes. One is underestimating Corbyn's personal appeal (policies and history aside if it suits you) as illustrated by his manhole covers and jar of jam last night, and the other is treating the electorate like mugs.

Given the choice between a nice fella, a decent human being who genuinely cares about people and a vile trollop who very obviously doesn't give a toss about anything except preserving the status quo and its tightening stranglehold on every aspect of our everyday lives, I place my trust in the British people to take a bit of a stand this time round. It probably won't be enough but it will at least make us feel a bit better about ourselves.

Well first of all the only poll that really matters is the one on June 8th. Like last time they go up and down like a Yo-yo and I'd be very surprised if they're entirely accurate in the lead up this time around.

But you talk about these vile opponents in the Labour party who are against Corbyn. I suppose in this case I could applaud you for having a sense of humour, but its not really a laughing matter that so many of Corbyn's supporters really are complete and utter scum of the earth. I know we talk about small percentages but their presence on social media really has been nothing short of disgraceful these past few months. The amount of abuse I've known people take really isn't good to see.

I also can't really take the nice fella thing seriously either. Corbyn is anti British in so many ways its actually scary. He may have toned down a great deal since his backbench days but the ideals of this man are still very much ingrained. You can add a few quite unsightly divorces in there too that don't really do much for his persona. Refusing to allow his children to go to a grammar school even though he did so himself.

If anything will make the British feel better about themselves its the opposition to extremism, to anti Semitism and a politics of abuse against people who I happen to disagree with but would support in their efforts to remove a hard left ideology that belongs in the 1930's. Extremism has to be stopped at all costs, no matter what side it is on.

I've suddenly had this vision of Jammo as a foot-stamping junior school pupil who turned up for his break-time milk just after some else drank the last bottle.

Short trousers, cap too small for his head and a right little paddy.

[Deleted]

May 31, 2017 17:27:11 GMT @corfubulls said:

In Italy particularly, but also in France, Greece and Spain, the "older generation" is cherished, even celebrated.

Cherished so much that basic pensions have been cut from 1,200 euros a month to 400 and pensioners are eating out of dustbins.

I think you know that I meant cherished by family, not the state.

The state, any state, rarely, if ever, gives a stuff about individuals.

PS. And if the Greeks were to pay some tax from time to time things might be a little better. You will know this.