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Post by Incognito on Mar 7, 2022 19:28:35 GMT
Hopefully they're all doctors and lorry drivers
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Post by mikeunderpenyard on Mar 7, 2022 19:33:23 GMT
Ff's!
She cant even spell it right.
Go Nads!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2022 20:55:12 GMT
I think I'm right in saying that points 1, 2 and 5 were already happening.
3, yeah fair enough, I can only guess that this is the only real point of the 6 point plan.
4, what does that even mean? I'm not sure that blowing people up will ever be considered normal behaviour by anyone who is erm... normal.
6, I'm not sure you're in a position to do that any more, luv. The US and the EU are quite capable of talking to one another. Yeah, have a chat about it but it's not much of a point.
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Post by eggchaserbull on Mar 8, 2022 8:44:50 GMT
Priti Patel said, "We have staff in Calais, we have support on the ground, it is wrong to say we’re just turning people back, we’re absolutely not, we’re supporting those that have been coming to Calais."
The support in Calais is in a very hard to find position, and consists of 3 Home Office officials standing around a camping table with a few packets of crisps and a few Kit Kats. The Ukrainian refugees who manage to find this place are then told they will have to go to Paris or Brussels to apply for visas.
So "we have support on the ground," if not a downright lie, is bending the truth; but "...it is wrong to say we’re just turning people back, we’re absolutely not, we’re supporting those that have been coming to Calais," is a downright lie.
Priti Patel? Pretty pathetic more like.
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Post by Barney still in B-Block on Mar 8, 2022 9:13:57 GMT
Priti Patel said, "We have staff in Calais, we have support on the ground, it is wrong to say we’re just turning people back, we’re absolutely not, we’re supporting those that have been coming to Calais."The support in Calais is in a very hard to find position, and consists of 3 Home Office officials standing around a camping table with a few packets of crisps and a few Kit Kats. The Ukrainian refugees who manage to find this place are then told they will have to go to Paris or Brussels to apply for visas. So "we have support on the ground," if not a downright lie, is bending the truth; but "...it is wrong to say we’re just turning people back, we’re absolutely not, we’re supporting those that have been coming to Calais," is a downright lie. Priti Patel? Pretty pathetic more like. Same playbook as Johnson, but actually been sacked for lying. Twice. A nasty, cold-hearted, thoroughly unfit for purpose individual.
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Post by Barney still in B-Block on Mar 8, 2022 9:15:08 GMT
Ff's! She cant even spell it right. Go Nads! Gonads. 👏👏👏👏
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Post by GRL on Mar 8, 2022 9:31:39 GMT
"Those who hope that sanctions and international disdain will provoke an uprising against the president may have to wait a long time before the scales fall from Russian eyes..."
"Putin's brazen references to the Ukrainian leaders' degeneracy - "drug addicts" - are code for contempt for western weakness and self-absorption."
"....The Russian leader will fall only when we have persuaded his people that as divided, unequal, effete and decadent as we might seem to them, and challenging as our free and open way of life can be, it is still a more just, humane and kinder way to raise our children than being shielded by the iron hand of the leader."
Trevor Phillips, The Times, 7th March, 2022 (purchased that day in Andrew's Holmer Stores at 0657.) (You won't do anything for your community by reading stuff online and posting a bastard link to it.)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2022 10:08:02 GMT
Having not been to Russia, it's very difficult to say what life is like over there in general. I imagine that it's completely normal and one would not notice any significant difference whatsoever to life here. If this is the case, it's hard to see how the west could ever win over the masses in Russia as it's not like we can offer a better way of life.
Coupled with the fact that I do not fully appreciate the history of eastern Ukraine, it's difficult to comment on anything, really.
The reason I write this is because I can't see how this can end without either Putin ending it (although the west will then chase him for war crimes) or a full-scale, all out war. It's not like we're looking to liberate a nation; it would seem that most of them are cool with it (even many Russians who work in the Arts in the west clearly do not disagree with him) so what are we supposed to do? Nothing is the answer, I guess. Supply Poland with weapons and goods and hope for the best.
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Post by GRL on Mar 8, 2022 10:25:16 GMT
It is a forlorn hope that anything can be done. We came across droves of Russians on several holidays in Greece in the early 2000s. At one nice resort, the Corfu Imperial, we even came across Mr Gorbachev: I handed him a ladle for his baked beans one morning. Neither he nor his minder said "thank you."
They hate us.
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Post by Jonny Dangerous on Mar 8, 2022 12:58:18 GMT
It is a forlorn hope that anything can be done. We came across droves of Russians on several holidays in Greece in the early 2000s. At one nice resort, the Corfu Imperial, we even came across Mr Gorbachev: I handed him a ladle for his baked beans one morning. Neither he nor his minder said "thank you." They hate us. Did he see you lick it, or something?
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Post by GRL on Mar 8, 2022 12:59:46 GMT
"The political scientist Robert Putnam argues that we have become more vain and self-obsessed, more focused on rights than responsibilities, more likely to seek fame as an end in itself rather than achieving something worthy of fame. We are also more likely to heatedly disagree on trivial matters such as whether the word "curry" amounts to cultural appropriation - a classic case of what the British anthropologist Ernest Crawley called "the narcissism of small differences.""
"While X-Jinping was resetting the world order through his Belt and Road initiative and Vladimir Putin was recreating the Russian Empire by annexing Georgia and Crimea, we were arguing over gender-neutral toilets."
Looks like Matthew Syed has caught me up now? Losing patience with the rest of you.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2022 13:09:59 GMT
That is all true. At least in part, if not wholly. Putin has us bang to rights in some aspects of what he says.
That's probably what I had in mind when I was suggesting that many Russians would have absolutely no intention of siding with the west. We're hardly in great shape ourselves*.
*I feel the need to acknowledge that we are not blowing up cities, so I guess we have our merits.
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Skomer
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Post by Skomer on Mar 8, 2022 14:36:42 GMT
"The political scientist Robert Putnam argues that we have become more vain and self-obsessed, more focused on rights than responsibilities, more likely to seek fame as an end in itself rather than achieving something worthy of fame. We are also more likely to heatedly disagree on trivial matters such as whether the word "curry" amounts to cultural appropriation - a classic case of what the British anthropologist Ernest Crawley called "the narcissism of small differences."" "While X-Jinping was resetting the world order through his Belt and Road initiative and Vladimir Putin was recreating the Russian Empire by annexing Georgia and Crimea, we were arguing over gender-neutral toilets." Looks like Matthew Syed has caught me up now? Losing patience with the rest of you. The points about the obsession with seeking fame as an end in itself and the idea that being angry about everything is more important than reasoned argument are well made. But freedom means the freedom to be shallow and/or shouty. The only problem I have with Syed's wistful look at China and Russia is that it suggests that we need to ditch a progressive, thoughtful behaviour and be more like them. I'm not sure that it something I would want or enjoy. Both China and Russia have systemic weaknesses that will lead to their decline in the future - they are like Rome in the days of Marcus Aurelius. Russia seems to be wanting to hasten that inevitability with their recent behaviour.
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Post by GRL on Mar 8, 2022 15:01:21 GMT
"The political scientist Robert Putnam argues that we have become more vain and self-obsessed, more focused on rights than responsibilities, more likely to seek fame as an end in itself rather than achieving something worthy of fame. We are also more likely to heatedly disagree on trivial matters such as whether the word "curry" amounts to cultural appropriation - a classic case of what the British anthropologist Ernest Crawley called "the narcissism of small differences."" "While X-Jinping was resetting the world order through his Belt and Road initiative and Vladimir Putin was recreating the Russian Empire by annexing Georgia and Crimea, we were arguing over gender-neutral toilets." Looks like Matthew Syed has caught me up now? Losing patience with the rest of you. The points about the obsession with seeking fame as an end in itself and the idea that being angry about everything is more important than reasoned argument are well made. But freedom means the freedom to be shallow and/or shouty. The only problem I have with Syed's wistful look at China and Russia is that it suggests that we need to ditch a progressive, thoughtful behaviour and be more like them. I'm not sure that it something I would want or enjoy. Both China and Russia have systemic weaknesses that will lead to their decline in the future - they are like Rome in the days of Marcus Aurelius. Russia seems to be wanting to hasten that inevitability with their recent behaviour. I am mindful that Russia are the miscreants. What concerns me is our proclivity for navel-gazing and taking our eye off the ball. Politicslive today featured a good panel, especially Alistair Campbell. The last ten minutes of the programme, however, featured a woman talking about body image. Didn't get what it had to do with politics.
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Post by glawsterwhite on Mar 8, 2022 19:26:55 GMT
The west has about as much chance of influencing the average Russian citizen as I do of becoming king. Russia is the new China..... no freedom of press or individual thought. They will be fed so many lies and utter bullshit that they will have very little chance of knowing the truth. At least in the West we have individual freedom of thought ... well for now anyway !
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2022 19:53:03 GMT
The west has about as much chance of influencing the average Russian citizen as I do of becoming king. Russia is the new China..... no freedom of press or individual thought. They will be fed so many lies and utter bullshit that they will have very little chance of knowing the truth. At least in the West we have individual freedom of thought ... well for now anyway ! What is the truth? Judging by the way Corbyn was ripped apart (for example) I'm not sure that we do have individual freedom of thought...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2022 20:15:43 GMT
The west has about as much chance of influencing the average Russian citizen as I do of becoming king. Russia is the new China..... no freedom of press or individual thought. They will be fed so many lies and utter bullshit that they will have very little chance of knowing the truth. At least in the West we have individual freedom of thought ... well for now anyway ! The difference between Russia and China is that Jim Bowen has shown the Russians the speedboat as they have got steadily more used to Western luxuries, and now he is wheeling it away. Although (a) Russia beyond the cities is still a crap hole, (b) How does it work with the Chinese population? When they go abroad on holiday or to study do they go berserk and just have a massive internet binge?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2022 20:25:00 GMT
Ukraine have some planes.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2022 21:12:34 GMT
They got there in the end.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2022 7:25:18 GMT
Ukraine have some planes. Cancel that.
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